Serving in North Africa from a Wheelchair

00:03.37
Jenn
Hello Sabine, thank you for joining us today for the first Don podcast of this series. And we're so thankful that you could be here with us.

00:18.29
Sabine
It's a pleasure for me.

00:21.91
Jenn
I wondered if we could just start by getting to know you a little bit. At least um would you be willing just to share with us a little bit of where you are from and how God called you into cross-cultural ministry. um Just a little bit of your life in the last 20 years as you've served him.

00:44.40
Sabine
Okay. Well, I'm a German. I grew up in Germany, where I have been living the last, last let us say, 35, 40 years out of Germany. I am disabled from my early childhood, sitting in a wheelchair. And for me, it was always a question, what is the sense of my life being limited?

01:14.93
Jenn
Hmm.

01:16.61
Sabine
And um one time I was still young, I was 17. We read in the youth group, we read the passage of ah John 9, verses 1 to 3.

01:23.55
Jenn
Hmm.

01:29.96
Sabine
And exactly this question is coming up. And Jesus answers the the disciples and says this man is disabled or blind, ah that the works of God might be displayed in him.

01:45.69
Jenn
Hmm.

01:45.67
Sabine
and This is what led me to becoming a Christian. And then early in my Christian life, I went to a student fellowship where there were a lot of missionaries coming and talking about their service overseas. So I really had the same, the desire also to to serve the Lord cross-culturally. and yes it wasn't easy always it was ah people were against it for the in the beginning many of even the church leaders where I was going to church they said no you better pray for missionaries but it's not for you to to do this but I still had this conviction and then I asked God for a clear sign and exactly what I was asking him this happens like what the

02:17.25
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

02:31.39
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

02:43.42
Sabine
Gideon with a fleece and so I always knew it was God who called me and this helped me a lot even when doors were closing and when people were against.

02:50.88
Jenn
Hmm.

02:56.79
Sabine
Yeah, that's how I came into cross-cultural work.

02:57.08
Jenn
Hmm.

03:00.36
Sabine
I was working for nine years in France and in a church planting ministry there mainly with disabled people and with children.

03:09.56
Jenn
Hmm.

03:11.80
Sabine
But then I had the the feeling it was coming to an end.

03:13.74
Jenn
Hmm.

03:17.99
Sabine
And I had the opportunity to study theology in the States and get a mass of divinity. And then my <unk> my desire was to serve and in a Muslim country. So North Africa was the first choice.

03:37.88
Jenn
Hmm.

03:41.05
Sabine
because I already knew French and had already met some North Africans in France.

03:42.82
Jenn
Mm hmm.

03:46.94
Sabine
So that's a bit how I came to work in North Africa. And it has been 25 years last year.

03:57.34
Don
Wow. Wow.

03:59.48
Jenn
It is so inspiring Sabine. We've only just begun and I'm already just, yeah, so moved. The clarity at which you heard the Lord call and your obedience to respond to Him in faith in spite of resistance and opposition and um just how God has led you. You say 25 years, but I'm, oh, it's, I imagine so many stories to share that have filled these last 25 years. Thank you.

04:57.96
Don
I visited with you a few times over the years as I've gone back into North Africa, but um what's it been like living, ministering through a wheelchair?

05:04.07
Sabine
-oh.

05:09.55
Jenn
Hmm.

05:09.70
Don
I mean, yeah, it's hard for us who are not so with such challenges to envision what it actually is like. So tell us something about what it's like.

05:20.33
Sabine
no Yeah, it's not always easy. There are some challenges. But what I really noticed over the years, God is guiding me also in providing places that are accessible. And what actually confirmed me coming to the first city I was working in was that there was a language school with the um with a downstairs classrooms.

05:52.16
Sabine
and so And finally I found a ah living place just across the road from there.

05:58.29
Jenn
Hmm.

05:58.38
Sabine
So God was always confirming things like this and caring for my special needs.

06:00.13
Jenn
Hmm.

06:04.82
Sabine
I think this was one of the ah the the nice things I always noticed. How God is looking through this.

06:12.28
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

06:15.18
Sabine
I mean, there are some other advantages to because with my disability, I would live here in Germany. I would probably have to to live in a nursing home or somewhere.

06:25.28
Don
Mm hmm.

06:28.72
Jenn
Hmm.

06:29.68
Sabine
But on the field, and you know in country of North Africa, it's easy to find helpers who are willing to stay 24 hours and live, which is another advantage.

06:33.75
Don
Mm

06:44.26
Sabine
I always had the possibility or the the privilege to live with the locals because I needed them with my helpers.

06:51.10
Jenn
Mmm. Mmm.

06:54.04
Sabine
There was even a language that was a help because I had to speak Arabic from the beginning because I had to communicate with my helpers.

07:01.04
Jenn
Wow.

07:01.15
Don
-hmm

07:04.07
Don
Hmm. Wow.

07:09.35
Sabine
But there are also some difficulties here.

07:11.27
Jenn
Mmm.

07:12.22
Sabine
As I said, I had always have to have helpers. And it's not always easy to find honest helpers. So and I also had some problems with that and people wanting to take advantage of me or...

07:28.51
Jenn
Hmm.

07:28.67
Sabine
Yeah, that also happened. I even had a ah driver I finally found out that he was stealing my money, that he had a had made a double of my keys from the house. And always when I was out of the house, he came and... pick some money as many people know where I have things because they have to help me to get them to take advantage.

07:45.09
Jenn
me

07:47.99
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

07:55.37
Sabine
But fortunately at the moment I have really nice people around and I don't have any fear of this.

08:03.19
Jenn
Hmm.

08:03.76
Don
Beautiful. Hmm.

08:06.24
Jenn
Wow. Sabine, would you just, you you just shared a little bit of some of the challenges, but what, would you have a story just to illustrate some of the challenges and opportunities that, that you have experienced?

08:29.63
Sabine
Well, as as I said, the opportunities I have as a disabled person were made first to work with disabled too.

08:39.26
Jenn
mm hmm.

08:39.27
Sabine
I worked for a long time with an association for disabled. I actually created it to distribute wheelchairs to disabled people in the country.

08:50.53
Jenn
Wow.

08:51.07
Sabine
That was an opportunity I had. And the challenges are maybe also that it's difficult for me, for example, to go and visit somebody by myself. I often i have to take my my driver or my helper with me.

09:11.89
Jenn
Mm hmm.

09:12.59
Sabine
Or sometimes, especially when I had helpers who were not believing, it was difficult then to do conversations.

09:19.69
Jenn
Hmm.

09:25.66
Sabine
I had one where I still have her, but she became a believer now. So this is one of the the great things that I have two of my helpers who came to believe us.

09:34.03
Jenn
Hmm.

09:36.11
Don
Praise God.

09:37.18
Jenn
Wonderful.

09:37.51
Sabine
At the moment I have a driver who is an African, but who is also a believer and a member of the church. So that helps me a lot. But during the time I had a helper who wasn't a be believer yet, It was sometimes difficult I was trying to share and she was always in conversations trying to support the person who is a Muslim and to defend her faith. It was sometimes a bit challenging, yeah.

10:07.10
Jenn
I imagine.

10:09.52
Sabine
Now it's better because two of them are believers and yeah, sometimes she does it but not very often.

10:10.01
Jenn
Wow.

10:10.16
Don
Oh.

10:14.47
Jenn
Hmm.

10:16.80
Don
Huh.

10:21.78
Jenn
Wow.

10:23.04
Sabine
what all those stories I could tell. I mean challenges as I said is with people who are not very honest.

10:30.77
Jenn
Hmm.

10:32.63
Sabine
That was always a challenge.

10:36.96
Sabine
But there there are many advantages too. I mean I feel like protected because most of the time I'm not on outside by myself. I'm always with somebody.

10:48.70
Jenn
Mm hmm.

10:51.76
Sabine
and Yeah, and usually people like to to talk with me what I do in this country and being disabled. and So that also gives opportunities to talk.

11:02.47
Jenn
Yeah.

11:05.84
Jenn
Hmm.

11:05.86
Sabine
And that I feel called by God into this work.

11:11.28
Jenn
Yeah.

11:11.34
Don
Hmm.

11:13.20
Jenn
I'm curious Sabine, just as you've shared just the challenges of dealing with dishonesty and you stayed in this area for 25 years. How have you kept your heart just trusting and soft? What would you say to others who might also find themselves in a situation like this?

11:40.48
Sabine
I always always try to see the positive aspects in people.

11:45.71
Jenn
Hmm.

11:46.51
Sabine
Sometimes I catch myself defending people and if as somebody else is criticizing them.

11:50.57
Jenn
Hmm.

11:54.84
Sabine
And I always had looked at them seeing saying, well, they didn't do good to me, but it's also somebody Jesus loves and I want to be.

12:00.51
Jenn
Hmm.

12:08.24
Sabine
I think one of the most important things is is loving people in spite of the things they might do to me.

12:16.17
Jenn
Hmm.

12:17.04
Sabine
I mean, Jesus said, love your enemies. And sometimes, yeah, they're not really my enemies, but they are doing to me bad things.

12:28.49
Jenn
Hmm.

12:29.37
Sabine
I feel I need to love them anyway. into Just pray for them and trust the Lord, he can change them.

12:40.78
Jenn
Yeah.

12:43.42
Jenn
I imagine you had to remind yourself daily that it's such a good word to move in love towards people. It's beautiful.

12:54.17
Sabine
That's really what's what moves me and um what also my helpers who came to faith.

12:57.56
Jenn
Mm-hmm.

13:00.54
Sabine
that That's what they said, what moved them too to finally trust the Lord.

13:06.92
Don
Hmm. Wow.

13:08.78
Jenn
Your testimony, that's so good, Sabine. Thank you.

13:14.98
Don
You know, I had the privilege of visiting you a number of times when you were there.

13:17.74
Jenn
Thanks.

13:18.58
Don
And I remember one visit when your school for handicap was going right next to the center, right next to the public school, sharing the wall. you had I was there when um a bunch of parents came in for a session and the children were in another room. and and your You and your team were, I forget if you were talking to your the parents or your you partner was, but the kids had, you know, they were most of them handicapped in wheelchairs. They, different kind of handicaps and they had such joy of their faces being together and engaging.

13:47.91
Jenn
Hmm.

13:48.20
Sabine
Mm hmm

13:54.85
Don
um And even that center was highlighted in the national news more than once. um Could you just sort of share maybe a few highlights of just where God was working in and it was maybe even astonishing to you what was happening, some um stories of surprising, some highlights of your life, just whichever is a highlight for you.

14:20.14
Sabine
Well, actually I didn't come to the country to do this work. i ah Once I saw on the marketplace, there was a man in a very, um very broken, I would say broken wheelchair. One wheel was missing and some other things were missing. And he asked me if I could wheelchair for him.

14:39.88
Jenn
Mm hmm.

14:42.44
Sabine
And of course I was kind of reluctant, but then I, I thought about it in my country.

14:49.76
Jenn
Mm

14:50.69
Sabine
Lots of wheelchairs are thrown on the trash and we could bring them and repair them that might even give somebody a work.

14:54.64
Jenn
hmm.

15:03.45
Sabine
So it was my, it kind of was my call to work with disabled. And, umria bashria as we say in in my country,

15:09.71
Jenn
Hmm.

15:13.31
Jenn
Hmm.

15:16.19
Sabine
Little by little, I found some people I trusted at the time to start the association with and then it grew. Then we started the center. We got some place from the city who, from the school Dawn was talking about, who let us use some abandoned classrooms and I got some donations to renovate them. So it was a great time.

15:45.72
Jenn
e

15:46.88
Sabine
It was a great time. Then this might be one of the big disappointments that 14 years after I started, there were some people coming into the association.

15:52.18
Don
now.

16:01.27
Jenn
Hmm.

16:01.24
Sabine
Most of those who started, they left for different reasons. And they were just looking for

16:08.06
Jenn
Wow.

16:08.62
Sabine
getting the money, the support I was getting, but they didn't want me and they didn't want, because I was so rigid, I was really wanted which has to be given to those who are most in need and the locals, they rather want to have them for people of influence or for family and sometimes for which they belong on this point.

16:14.92
Jenn
wow

16:23.08
Jenn
Hmm.

16:29.08
Jenn
Hmm.

16:32.66
Jenn
Hmm.

16:36.01
Sabine
And then one time when I was and when I was in Germany they made on a general assembly and they voted me out of the board and then they even changed the locks and finally I tried a lot to get back and we even went to court with it but finally I figured out it was it was a good time and I had to move on from like

16:45.08
Jenn
Wow.

16:48.08
Jenn
Wow.

17:00.54
Jenn
hmm hmm

17:01.77
Don
Hmm.

17:04.20
Sabine
And I still have contact with some of the the mothers privately. I visit them when I come back to the city. And we also had a time in 2005, one distribution in the city far south in the desert.

17:13.44
Jenn
me

17:22.11
Sabine
And there we worked together with another association And now I'm living in this city. Actually, the aren in 2005, I already had the impression God was asking me if I was willing to serve him in this city. But at the time, actually, my my organization didn't have any work in that city.

17:38.94
Jenn
Hmm.

17:43.94
Jenn
Hmm.

17:45.78
Sabine
And that was not the time. But what is a bit funny when I came there on 21,

17:50.42
Jenn
Hmm.

17:53.88
Sabine
i ah ri took a relationship with this association and I was very well received and I still have contact and visiting up with the president of the association.

18:08.39
Jenn
Hmm.

18:09.27
Sabine
I don't do this very fault full time now. I help out would in the association maybe once or twice a week with some teaching for the children.

18:18.25
Jenn
Hmm.

18:21.73
Sabine
But I don't want to get into leadership anymore there, because I made those experiences that the locals, they don't like it too much to have foreigners in leadership.

18:22.23
Jenn
Hmm.

18:35.04
Sabine
And I'd rather be just helping out and and be a guest.

18:35.83
Jenn
e

18:41.72
Sabine
But I don't want to have to do anything with the leadership and looking for money and how money is distributed and all those

18:50.97
Jenn
Hmm.

18:54.52
Don
I do remember visiting when you had been locked out and you showed me some of the papers that they gave you to say that you're no longer, you know, the whole thing you'd built up, they pushed you away. ah I mean, you said you realized you had to move on, but is there anything more that like how God helped you at that time or or friends? or what How did you get through it? i mean that's that's I could see someone getting very bitter over something like that, but I don't think you're bitter.

19:26.69
Jenn
Hmm.

19:26.86
Sabine
No, I mean it wasn't easier, than especially at first, because I put so much of my or my energy into it.

19:30.97
Jenn
Hmm.

19:37.17
Jenn
Hmm.

19:37.20
Sabine
But then I also realized it was taking up too much so much of my energy that I couldn't do much of real ministry.

19:40.84
Jenn
Hmm.

19:42.12
Don
Hmm.

19:45.83
Sabine
I actually wanted to do in the country. So when when this happened, I concentrated myself more on working in this French-speaking international church where I got involved in with many Africans and wanted to to help them, loving also the locals, because at the time there was still quite a racism in the country.

20:13.90
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

20:21.92
Sabine
And some of the Africans, they just thought, we'll just get my studies done and then either get to Europe or get back home. But I don't like this country. I just want to spend the time I need to.

20:34.98
Jenn
me

20:37.80
Sabine
But this was one one thing I really had on my heart from that time on. Just to make the country, make them love the country.

20:46.58
Jenn
Hmm.

20:46.66
Don
Hmm.

20:47.35
Sabine
yeah I have seen a much much of a change.

20:49.28
Jenn
Wow.

20:50.35
Sabine
Now even in the church people are praying for the locals and people are trying to reach out and there are also locals coming to the church just by curiosity. There's one story i'm I don't forget. There was a man, a local, coming into the church and then he he gave gave us a ah letter ah to the pastor and at the time we didn't have a pastor but there was a pastor assistant and we opened it together and then he was asking for a bible and a cross a wooden cross and we

21:30.75
Jenn
Hmm. Wow.

21:33.02
Sabine
We then tried to talk to him and said, yeah, I can get you a Bible. You can come back next week and I can get you one. But for the cross you might not need it really.

21:43.15
Jenn
Hmm.

21:45.38
Sabine
um But when I gave him the Bible the week after, yeah he ah took it on his heart and I was so cute, so so touching to see him take this Bible and being so happy.

21:55.31
Jenn
Hmm.

22:00.55
Jenn
Yeah.

22:01.00
Sabine
and A few weeks later actually he got baptized and there are ups and downs, but he's attending a local group.

22:04.56
Jenn
Mm.

22:11.41
Don
Hm.

22:12.43
Sabine
One of the things also happened, it was mainly after Corona, that all of the locals in the city, ah they didn't meet anymore, um many of the foreigners.

22:21.66
Jenn
Mm.

22:26.95
Sabine
So the groups were not really functioning. And I use the occasion to and call some and encourage them and just get something started in my house, what I had never done before. But Ruby is still meeting in my house, even if I'm not there most of the time.

22:42.00
Jenn
me

22:46.33
Sabine
So that was encouraging thing too.

22:46.51
Jenn
me

22:49.30
Jenn
That's very encouraging. Well, Sabine, would you just share just a few lessons that you've learned in your years of service, things that God has shown you and taught you?

23:14.08
Sabine
ah Yeah, some things maybe not trust locals too easily.

23:16.16
Don
Hmm. Hmm.

23:19.79
Jenn
Hmm.

23:20.60
Sabine
a Even if somebody says he is a believer. I had to learn that some people, they might even confess faith, but they just do it for some advantages.

23:34.71
Jenn
Hmm.

23:38.15
Sabine
They have something behind in their mind, so not just too easily to prove them before oh giving them a responsibility or before sharing too much with them.

23:52.79
Jenn
Hmm.

23:54.67
Sabine
And then something I'm still little kind of learning on it is how to deal with money matters. This is a difficult thing.

24:02.55
Jenn
Hmm.

24:02.73
Don
and

24:05.03
Sabine
There are so many needs. yeah

24:08.29
Jenn
Yeah.

24:08.89
Sabine
and the Africans, and sometimes you want to help, and sometimes you realize helping you don't really help.

24:14.63
Jenn
Hmm.

24:19.45
Sabine
ah I'm still learning on to know what to do in these cases. They always see me as a European. The Europeans have money.

24:29.35
Jenn
Yeah.

24:29.56
Sabine
We have to get um out of her what we can.

24:33.15
Jenn
e e e Thank you, Sabine.

24:34.81
Sabine
and That's a thing that is a bit difficult.

24:37.19
Don
Hmm.

24:38.08
Sabine
And I'm so glad you're on there, too.

24:38.37
Don
Hmm.

24:39.59
Sabine
Yeah.

24:44.05
Jenn
That sounds like and just growing in discernment, discerning people's hearts, which only the Holy Spirit can lead you and has led you and also discerning how to use your steward, the resources that you have in the face of so much need.

24:48.64
Sabine
Yeah.

24:54.24
Sabine
Yeah.

24:57.02
Don
Thank

25:00.95
Sabine
yeah

25:04.82
Jenn
um

25:05.16
Sabine
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

25:06.03
Jenn
Yeah. Yeah.

25:09.62
Sabine
And making right priorities, I also still have to learn on, yeah, how to find the right balance between rest and work.

25:09.69
Jenn
If I could ask, yeah. Mmm.

25:20.63
Jenn
e

25:20.64
Sabine
This might be another challenge as a disabled. Just living takes so much more time.

25:24.36
Jenn
Yeah.

25:25.92
Don
you.

25:26.60
Jenn
Yeah, I imagine.

25:27.36
Sabine
And then I realize I can't do all of the things I want to do.

25:32.30
Jenn
Mmm.

25:34.18
Sabine
Maybe I have to learn to ah to do a bit, go a bit lower and say, I can't do everything that other people are doing.

25:44.57
Jenn
Mm.

25:44.98
Sabine
It's difficult to learn.

25:50.93
Jenn
Thank you, Sabin.

25:54.89
Don
I'm just curious. um

25:58.61
Don
Maybe it's a misleading question, but I feel like because of the challenges you've lived with all these years, that you may have some insights into ministry that those of us who are maybe able-bodied don't quite get.

26:05.41
Jenn
Mm.

26:14.23
Don
Are there any thoughts you've thought as you interact with maybe younger workers or colleagues that Yeah, if only they understood this, um they would do better. Any insights that you've you feel like God's taught you because of who who you are?

26:35.09
Jenn
Hmm.

26:35.42
Sabine
Well, maybe just being patient, not expecting too much.

26:40.24
Jenn
Hmm.

26:41.74
Sabine
Because it's true, we all want to see many fruit and we want to see people coming to Christ. and But in the Muslim world, it's not always like this.

26:54.42
Jenn
Hmm.

26:54.84
Sabine
People are not coming to Christ and masses. and not being too quickly to say people to ask people to to accept Christ in their lives, because they need to learn a lot before.

27:10.83
Jenn
a

27:14.04
Sabine
I don't want them, or we don't want them to just confess Christ big to to do a pleasure to us, but understand what they are really doing.

27:22.21
Jenn
Hmm.

27:25.44
Jenn
Yeah, yeah.

27:25.98
Don
Yes.

27:27.76
Sabine
So, I mean, I can't say that I led many many people to Christ. It's often, there are many, many, many things coming into their lives that are leading finally to the decision.

27:36.67
Jenn
Mm hmm. Hmm.

27:43.54
Sabine
Maybe just being patient, that's what I want. and serve the Lord and asking each time, the Lord, what should I do? How can I serve me?

27:53.10
Jenn
Hmm.

27:55.54
Sabine
So now you have to show me what I'm doing in this place and the right people on my way.

27:58.36
Jenn
Hmm.

28:04.68
Jenn
Hmm.

28:04.90
Sabine
I don't know if I have many things that are different because I'm in a wheelchair.

28:11.56
Jenn
Hmm.

28:13.72
Sabine
I'm just being led by the Lord and

28:14.28
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

28:17.77
Sabine
doing what you can. And as I said before, showing people love, all is about relationships.

28:25.60
Jenn
yeah yeah that's so good

28:25.70
Sabine
Ships are not so convinced of many programs and strategies and more into relationships.

28:33.32
Don
Yeah.

28:42.67
Jenn
i'm I think Dawn was in a very kind way saying, what advice do you have for younger younger people stepping out into cross-cultural ministry? This is your chance Sabine, what advice would you give to those that are just beginning this cross-cultural journey?

29:02.39
Sabine
I would tell people take enough time to get to learn the language and to get to learn the culture.

29:06.80
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

29:11.88
Sabine
The mistake I made when this man, I met this man and I started the wheelchair workers. I wasn't very fluent in language and I should have taken more time for language.

29:20.32
Jenn
Hmm.

29:24.31
Sabine
But I are you always, when you get in a new country or so, you want to do lots of things. But it would have been better if I had taken more time to study even the the written language for Tsar. Because afterwards you don't find the time, I would say take time to prepare even before you come to the country.

29:45.46
Jenn
That's right, yeah. Mm.

29:53.35
Sabine
I mean, I already had French, but I advise people to learn French so they can communicate

30:00.87
Jenn
Mm.

30:02.43
Sabine
or Spanish, and that's how Spanish might be better. But to have already a language that is spoken in the country, or the paperwork is in two languages, in French and Arabic, so you can get get around.

30:06.60
Jenn
Hmm.

30:18.53
Sabine
But if you don't have any of these languages, it's difficult to get started.

30:20.42
Jenn
Hmm. Yeah.

30:26.48
Don
Hmm.

30:27.55
Jenn
That sounds like putting down deep roots, which takes perseverance. Language is hard and culture is hard to understand.

30:38.73
Sabine
Yeah but it's worth it.

30:40.56
Jenn
Yeah, that's a good word.

30:40.92
Sabine
It's worth learning because then you can communicate, you can read with people.

30:46.73
Jenn
Yeah, that's so good.

30:51.80
Don
It's interesting that um you know you came to North Africa functionally fluent in French after spending all those years in France and in this latter I don't know how long it's been, five years or more, you you're increasingly focused on French-speaking Africans and helping them love the local situation.

31:18.80
Jenn
Hmm.

31:18.84
Sabine
Yeah.

31:19.96
Don
Can you just tell us a bit about how that Kilgumage has come about and what you're doing now? Because you told me before we started this session that you're really working with a local French church. You help plant a local expatriate church. um

31:35.76
Jenn
Hmm.

31:35.90
Don
which is not what you were envisioning doing when you first came. So how how did that all come about?

31:43.08
Sabine
When the sitting where I was working first, there was an English speaking and a French speaking church. I first went to the English speaking church, but then um because the French was very, wasn't very organized and and yeah, they were mostly Africans, but then there was a an African medical doctor who became the pastor who took two years of his life, of his ministry, to work as a pastor and to build up the church.

32:19.71
Jenn
Mm.

32:20.04
Sabine
And I pray him pretty soon I got him into the association. And then I also felt, well, why are we just among all kind of workers who are trying to fellowship among each other? I would be better to go to a church where I can use my gifts. And so it was mainly with him that I got into the church. But yeah, then I loved it. And yeah, it has been, when did he come on 2000?

32:54.27
Sabine
So it has also been 24 years. I'm the French speaking church.

32:58.26
Jenn
Hmm.

33:02.03
Sabine
And then in 2021,

33:06.61
Sabine
I felt the church is very much independent and there are a lot of people who attend take responsibility so I was yeah i was preaching, i was doing I was on the church board but there were people who could do the same thing and i also the climate in the city was very difficult for me because

33:30.99
Jenn
Hmm.

33:32.41
Sabine
was very hot in the summer and very cold in the winter.

33:36.57
Jenn
Hmm.

33:36.58
Sabine
And I can't, I don't support or I don't stand cold weather very, very well. So I was looking for a different place to surf because I thought, well, if I don't do it now, I will never do it.

33:47.33
Jenn
Hmm.

33:53.39
Sabine
looking into ah coastal cities. And one of my objectives was to go somewhere where the French church isn't established yet.

34:04.78
Jenn
me

34:05.88
Sabine
So and then, yeah, I visited several churches, several places, but then coming to the south, to the desert, I judged how this might be the place. There were lots of Africans in the city. mainly migrants, and but this was an opportunity.

34:24.86
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

34:29.11
Sabine
I talked to the Catholic priests in this city and they told me they're about 15,000 Africans in the city.

34:38.97
Don
Wow.

34:39.72
Jenn
Wow.

34:39.69
Sabine
so Yeah, we didn't know how to get to meet them, how to, what to do, but It was one of the things that helped me to to decide going to the city. And then actually what happened, the same year ah we moved in, and in August and in October the first African students came to that city.

35:08.28
Don
Wow.

35:09.26
Sabine
and they Many of them were already Christians

35:13.00
Jenn
me

35:12.96
Sabine
There was a guy, a very young man, but he was a pastor's son from Africa, from Congo.

35:20.11
Jenn
Hmm.

35:20.61
Sabine
And he was a good pianist and he was very excited starting something.

35:24.39
Jenn
Hmm.

35:26.67
Sabine
They helped and then within a couple of months, we started our first church service. and And I also had a local family moving down with me. Well, this is sometimes a challenge, but also from the beginning, we kind of mixed

35:53.14
Sabine
locals and Africans.

35:55.76
Jenn
Hmm.

35:56.54
Don
Yes.

35:57.19
Sabine
I also tried to get in contact with some local believers, but haven't really figured it out how to

36:05.60
Jenn
Hmm.

36:05.90
Sabine
get them to meet together. But ah working, I'm also on the board of the national fellow at national French church. So this also helped me to get residency and to have a reason to be there. i'm I'm working with a church. Everybody is like this.

36:24.98
Jenn
Hmm.

36:28.15
Sabine
And they got got the church papers within the in when I deposed for my residency. I also handed in the church papers.

36:38.37
Jenn
me

36:40.92
Sabine
So even if I'm there officially as a retired resistor, I still have to have a reason why I want to be there.

36:41.34
Don
and

36:48.44
Jenn
Mm hmm.

36:51.33
Don
So to me, this story is fascinating how God is at work in the global church. um You know, these migrants fleeing, trying to get into Europe and escaping poverty, and and they're stuck in a little desert city in the South of North Africa. And here, some of them in Germany, who's so French, is helping them start a church and strengthen themselves and in faith.

37:13.85
Jenn
Hmm.

37:16.49
Don
It's just a fascinating interchange of different parts of the global church.

37:20.27
Jenn
Yeah.

37:22.33
Don
Yeah, it's exciting.

37:23.39
Jenn
Hmm.

37:24.41
Sabine
I didn't expect it.

37:26.87
Jenn
Yeah.

37:27.41
Sabine
But I noticed that it's kind of curious, but there are a lot of young Africans coming to faith.

37:31.29
Jenn
Hmm.

37:35.63
Sabine
in the country. And every year we have several baptisms. There was one guy who was formed the first time with us and he wasn't really clear. He said, my mother is Catholic and my father, he's a Protestant, but he doesn't go anywhere. And then he came to faith and he changed completely. I'm very active now and got baptized there.

37:59.30
Jenn
Wow.

37:59.48
Don
Okay.

38:05.16
Sabine
And then another vision I have with this is to get a global world to work for, to reach out to those who are lost.

38:10.59
Jenn
Mm.

38:16.99
Sabine
I have now I have one, a young couple living in the same house and they become also members of my organization, a couple from Ivory Coast.

38:27.55
Jenn
Hmm.

38:29.72
Sabine
and So this is kind of the first fruit in this sense.

38:32.35
Jenn
Hmm.

38:33.33
Sabine
to say they are now excited of working for the Lord. And they also help with the church. And yeah, and sometimes it's not easy.

38:41.43
Jenn
Hmm.

38:41.42
Sabine
They don't get the support. and They always need your help. But I'm so happy if I see the Africans who want to be workers among the Muslims of the country.

38:54.68
Don
Hmm.

38:54.67
Jenn
Yeah.

38:56.60
Sabine
I think this is a great thing. And there's so much potential because they they They just have to find a job or open their little business, and they can get rid of them.

39:07.58
Jenn
e

39:09.77
Sabine
Anyway, there are so many Africans, so there's no problem for them to live there.

39:15.40
Jenn
e

39:15.77
Sabine
Those are students. They are sitting on the methane benches with their local students, so they also have the ability to reach out.

39:22.25
Jenn
he

39:24.97
Jenn
me

39:26.01
Don
Hmm.

39:28.74
Jenn
What an encouraging story.

39:32.79
Jenn
Sabine, we've heard you share just how the Lord first called you and you heard you say, be patient and go deep, grow in discernment.

39:43.49
Sabine
Well.

39:45.76
Jenn
We've heard you also say it doesn't end up looking the way you thought. And they'll sometimes things close or they um They shut down, but I hear you say, keep trusting the Lord and go where he is leading. And I've just been so encouraged in our short time together. I have one last question for you and I'm just so curious to being who besides Jesus from his word and John, um who inspired you?

40:31.29
Jenn
in the beginning and has inspired you along the way.

40:36.11
Sabine
I think I was very much inspired from biographies I read, from especially like Hudson Taylor or Lily

40:41.16
Jenn
e

40:46.71
Jenn
e

40:50.18
Sabine
Strutter, who came and north africa africa he came he came into North Africa.

40:52.26
Jenn
e

40:57.62
Sabine
He started by herself and just with a few friends.

41:03.27
Jenn
Yeah.

41:03.96
Sabine
just ah seeing how God was working through people.

41:07.89
Jenn
Yeah.

41:08.01
Sabine
And and just is encouraging me to see He can also work through me. And and while I always had the vision, I wanted to write my my own biography, but I don't know if I will ever do it or find somebody who will do it for me.

41:15.99
Jenn
Hmm.

41:21.93
Jenn
Hmm.

41:25.02
Sabine
But I think I was encouraged by the other people's examples. being real people or being people in books.

41:34.98
Jenn
That's so good.

41:39.76
Jenn
The testimony of others.

41:41.48
Sabine
Yeah.

41:42.84
Jenn
And your life is inspiring, so please write your biographies of being for a next generation.

41:43.03
Don
i

41:50.39
Jenn
Yeah.

41:50.52
Don
I think I know someone who might be willing interested in helping you write it. She likes to help people write, so I'll talk some more afterwards.

41:56.52
Jenn
m

41:58.88
Sabine
okay

42:00.90
Don
yeah

42:03.57
Don
Any just final thoughts or reflections as you look back at God's grace and his guidance over these 25 years in North Africa and um I mean, I remember you took one of our courses and you studied the Quran with us and went all the way to Bahrain to do a, or to UAE to do a, you know, you're you're constantly learning and growing. um I'm just very inspired by you. eddie Any um final thoughts for us?

42:40.66
Sabine
Yeah, I mean I would like to take more time to learn things, to grow and also to implement what I learned.

42:44.62
Jenn
Hmm. Hmm.

42:50.83
Sabine
it's It's good to take a course but then

42:51.42
Jenn
Hmm.

42:54.27
Sabine
It's not just for for taking the course, but for for applying it afterwards to the work.

42:56.08
Jenn
Hmm.

43:02.40
Don
Mmhmm.

43:03.92
Jenn
me

43:04.73
Sabine
Yeah, and thanks for inviting me. Thanks for giving me the occasion to share with you what I went through in my life. And yeah, I would encourage other disabled people too, too.

43:15.34
Jenn
Hmm.

43:18.42
Jenn
Hmm.

43:19.07
Sabine
Just go ahead. There are ways to do it. And don't let yourself discouraged by people who say, oh, it's too difficult.

43:22.94
Jenn
Hmm.

43:26.22
Sabine
Oh, wait you we We are afraid it would be too difficult for us. I mean, I always try to organize myself and to find ways to how I can find my helpers. I didn't

43:44.17
Don
you

43:44.69
Sabine
is for my colleagues. But I try to find the possibilities myself to find the the housings by myself. the But I'm willing to help also if somebody needs help. But you shouldn't be too dependent on others.

44:00.11
Jenn
Hmm.

44:03.09
Sabine
Otherwise, you might become a oh ah burden for somebody else.

44:08.91
Jenn
Hmm.

44:09.82
Sabine
and If somebody is disabled, it's possible. and But you have to you don't have to expect other people organizing it for you.

44:16.30
Jenn
Hmm.

44:20.29
Sabine
You have to see where you can live and how you can do it.

44:26.28
Jenn
e

44:26.79
Sabine
And then it's working.

44:30.38
Don
Well, thank you so much for this visit. It's been a joy to hear about what's going on. I look forward to maybe next time I'm back in that part of the world, maybe making that trip down to that part of the country that I've never been to.

44:45.02
Sabine
yeah you're

44:46.31
Don
I'd love to see you there.

44:49.86
Sabine
welcome

44:50.93
Don
Yeah.

44:51.16
Jenn
Thank you, Sabine. It was lovely to meet you.

44:53.64
Sabine
you're welcome it was a pleasure will just be blessed by it

44:56.95
Don
God bless.

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