Nelson Makanda’s Journey into training Christ‑Centered African Leaders

Don [00:01]:
So welcome to another episode of the Reflexio Podcast. I'm your host, Don Little, and in this episode we're having a conversation with Dr. Nelson Makanda, who's the Vice Chancellor of Africa International University in Nairobi, Kenya. I've had occasion to visit Africa International University a number of times over the last decade or more, but I first met Nelson in West Africa when I was at a mission event and we were on a long bus ride together and we had an interesting conversation. I probed about his life and what he's involved with. We can't touch on a lot of what we talked about that conversation in this episode, but last fall, the beginning of the academic semester, I was again in Nairobi and was able to go and interview Nelson in his office, actually in the boardroom and right next to his office at AIU. He was just managed to squeeze in enough time before he went to speak in the second chapel of the year. You'll find in this conversation that we covered a little bit things I hadn't known before about his childhood, how he came to faith, and also we get into his vision for the church in Africa. Nelson is quite a visionary man. He's got a passion, love of scripture. He had his doctorate in exegesis And he is really leading the Africa International University to become a premier institute training Christian leaders for all walks of life, including pastors and professors, to serve the church in Africa and beyond. He's got students coming from as far away as China to study at AIU. I know you'll enjoy this conversation, and welcome as we talk to Nelson Makanda.

Don [01:49]:
So welcome to the Reflexio podcast. It's great that I've been able to visit Kenya and actually come to your office to interview you. So welcome.

Nelson Makanda [01:58]:
Thank you, thank you, thank you, and welcome to Nairobi and to Africa International University.

Don [02:05]:
Thank you. Um, we've met on several occasions and we've got different connections, but for those who are watching this or listening to this, can you just say a little bit about your background, how you came to faith, or whatever your Christian heritage is, and then we'll go from there.

Nelson [02:22]:
My name is Nelson Makanda, and I was born and raised in rural western Kenya.

Nelson [02:32]:
Two parents at that time, they were Catholics. Of course, going to church by the nature of our that faith in our country is that, um, the distinction between those who have received Christ as Lord and Savior, and they do not seem to embrace that. But my mother got unwell when I was a little boy, 3 months old. Out of that illness, my father could not handle her because I think it might have been a demonic possession or whatever it was. So I'm told. I was 3 months old.

Don [03:17]:
You were 3 months old?

Nelson [03:18]:
Yes.

Nelson [03:19]:
So my father picks my mother and myself and he took us to my uncle's where my mother came from so that they could handle and perhaps find healing for her and maybe he will come back. For us later. So I leave my other two brothers and two sisters who are older than me and go with my mother. And while at my uncle's place, my uncle had just received Christ. Some missionaries from Elim, from the US, Elim Pentecostal missionaries, had just come. To Kenya and set up a ministry, a church, PFA, Pentecostal Evangelistic Fellowship of Africa, and established a church, a little church within the neighborhood. My uncle had joined that church.

Don [04:13]:
As a child?

Nelson [04:13]:
Yes, no, my uncle now. Yes, yes. And so he invites members of this church and the pastors and evangelists to come and pray for my mother. Right. And as they did, my mother got well. Wow. They, they cast out the demons and, and the oppressive spirit. Wow. She got well. She received Christ and she carried me back home.

Don [04:43]:
Okay, so then your whole family went back.

Nelson [04:45]:
So we go back home and my father receives us. He was excited. We are united. And a few months later, my father also receives Christ. Okay. So that's how—

Don [05:02]:
So you had a Christian home.

Nelson [05:03]:
Yes.

Nelson [05:04]:
That's how we were introduced to Christ. And so I grew up in that context.

Don [05:11]:
Did you start attending some kind of a Protestant church?

Nelson [05:13]:
Yes. Started attending that church.

Nelson [05:16]:
The PEFA church and was raised in that church, was taught about Christ in that church, knew that we were very different as a family from our relatives and our neighbors. And because the community was largely still much more immersed in what you call perhaps a little mix here of African culture and a little mix of Christianity here, Catholicism, and not very defined and distinctly Christian. And so it was very clear that we were very different.

Nelson [05:57]:
So growing up in that context, I finished my primary school and go to high school. And while in high school, away from home, I noticed that I was distinctly different from my colleagues.

Don [06:10]:
You were in some kind of a dorm together?

Nelson [06:12]:
Yes, yes, yes, living in school together. And it's at that point that I solidified my faith and, and, and, and went back home during that first term of my high school and was baptized.

Nelson [06:33]:
I was baptized.

Don [06:34]:
Were you like 15 or something at this point?

Nelson [06:36]:
Maybe about 14 and a half, thereabout, about 14 and a half, thereabout. And started my journey.

Nelson [06:46]:
My personal journey with Jesus. Went back when the school term opened, I founded a Christian union.

Don [06:54]:
You started it?

Nelson [06:55]:
I started a Christian union.

Don [06:56]:
Wow.

Nelson [06:56]:
In my high school. It was a new high school, so we were not too many boys, like about 200 or so boys. Okay, it was just a part of the new opening up new school and began this leadership journey.

Don [07:12]:
Okay, great. You're leading from 6, 15 years old, young, but they are all my peers.

Nelson [07:18]:
I mean, maybe the older ones were like 2 or 3 years older than me, so, so they're all my peers. So we started, I started leading at a very young age, about age 15, taking up Christian responsibilities and leadership. So grew up in discipleship through the Christian Union in high school.

Don [07:40]:
So you were leading it. Were there other adults discipling you?

Nelson [07:47]:
We had, we got, the school assigned a Christian Union patron. On.

Don [07:51]:
Okay, for us, right?

Nelson [07:53]:
So, so under the, the shepherding of the Christian Union patron to the Catholic school, right? So Christian Union was not, uh, because Christian Union tends to be evangelical, right? And the Catholics have Young Catholic Society, right? So, so this was a new movement in the school. But the principal was very good and allowed us. And so I found a teacher who was a believer to sponsor it? Yes, to support and to be a patron. Yeah. And just support this new society on campus, on, in high school. And, and so I grew up there.

Nelson [08:33]:
Uh, came back home, continued with the youth group leadership, finished high school, uh, and joined university. Uh, to study to become a teacher of math and economics. Okay. And my leadership continued on campus. First year I became a vice chair of the Christian Union. Okay. In second year I became a— continued with vice chair of Christian Union and became a chair in third year.

Don [09:00]:
So it was fairly evident early on that God had gifted you in leadership, that God had invited me to serve him.

Nelson [09:07]:
It was that was very clear for me, and people could identify and pick that out very easily in many places that the Lord put me during that season. Finished high school and joined— sorry, finished university, graduated, and joined Fellowship of Christian Unions. Fellowship of Christian Unions in Kenya is equivalent of our intervarsity.

Don [09:36]:
Like intervarsity, right?

Nelson [09:38]:
It's the IFS movement, right, in Kenya, FOCUS. And by the way, today it's— I'm told it's the largest student movement. Kenya is the largest one in the world.

Don [09:54]:
So, so were you then in leadership in the movement, or were you just working at a local college?

Nelson [09:58]:
So I, I joined an internship.

Nelson [10:03]:
It's called a short-term experience in ministry that picks young graduates, right, who have been leaders on campus, right, to go to another campus and join a mentorship of their— really, your peers.

Don [10:18]:
You join in with another team.

Nelson [10:19]:
Yes, yes. And so you become a mentor and a trainer, yeah, of Christian Union leaders in a different campus. For a period of 1 year, it helps you to define whether this is what you want to do. You want to follow God and in ministry, or you want to go and serve God in your career. So at the end of my second year, it was clear that the Lord had— was inviting me into serving him in Christian work, full-time Christian work, as opposed to serving him in the market.

Don [10:54]:
Place, right?

Nelson [10:56]:
Uh, and that's how I found my journey, uh, to Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology. So after that, you actually— here I came over here, uh, to study, uh, and, uh, did my master's in biblical studies, right? Uh, finished, uh, after 2 years my master's, joined Bible Society of Kenya, uh, translation project, uh, taught in a Bible school, founded a Bible school in Uganda, Mbale, Uganda, and and taught for about 2 years as I did Bible translation. Then I left and joined the National Council of Churches of Kenya, okay, as a regional coordinator, one of the regions leading about 8 or 7 different districts in South Rift region. At the end of my second year in that, in that stint, uh, the school, Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology, was organizing, planning to set up a PhD program in biblical studies. Yes. And translation studies.

Nelson [12:00]:
So our professors here, particularly two of them that I would like to mention their names, Chester Wood, who now has retired into Indianapolis, and Ronnie Sim.

Nelson [12:12]:
The Lord blesses. So he just rested there 3 weeks ago. Wow. From Scotland set up— one was leading Biblical Studies, and Ronnie, who was an SIL scholar, set up the PhD in Translation Studies. And they invited 12 of us.

Don [12:34]:
So the opening class.

Nelson [12:36]:
Yeah, the opening class. Guinea pigs, as you like it. So I came.

Don [12:40]:
And so you did a dual major or Biblical Studies?

Nelson [12:42]:
Yes, Biblical Studies. Yes, but really it would have been a dual major because we shared classes for 2 years.

Don [12:49]:
Okay, with the same students.

Nelson [12:51]:
Oh yes, we shared classes for 2 years. So did lots of linguistics, biblical studies together, traveled together to Tyndale House in the UK, to Hebrew University in Israel, Jerusalem, and so on. Had a very good stay here, finished my program, graduated in 2011 as the first graduate, okay, of a PhD from Africa International University.

Don [13:21]:
Congratulations.

Nelson [13:22]:
Thank you. And the same year we transitioned from NEXT to AIU, right?

Don [13:27]:
Okay, that's when the name changed, and that's where the name changed.

Nelson [13:30]:
And I had just picked up a pastoral role before I graduated, because I finished writing and the university would not allow me to graduate because they wanted me to graduate with an AIU instead of NEXT, right? So I picked up a pastoral role at Nairobi Baptist Church as an associate pastor.

Don [13:48]:
Is that where you met your wife?

Nelson [13:50]:
No, I met her— I met my wife, uh, in student ministry. Okay. And we came over here with her, okay, uh, as we were doing student ministry to also come. She also came and as I did here on Christian education as I did my biblical studies. So I met her then, but we got married soon after my master's.

Nelson [14:11]:
So we, I, we stayed in Anabaptist for 6 years pastoring among the adults and God's people, and then transitioned to the National Council of Churches of Kenya. Okay. As the Deputy General Secretary. So I returned as a junior manager initially, but now as a senior manager.

Don [14:37]:
So let me ask, because these terminologies, they vary in different countries.

Nelson [14:43]:
Yes.

Don [14:43]:
The National Council of Churches would normally be associated with the—

Nelson [14:50]:
globally, that will be the WCC movement.

Nelson [14:53]:
Okay, but the National Council of Churches of Kenya here is, uh, is an evangelical movement, and it's associated with the WEA. No, they are not associated. They will have a quasi-relationship with WCC. Okay, but not a membership relationship.

Don [15:07]:
Okay, because WCC is liberal.

Nelson [15:09]:
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. So they have some quasi-programmatic engagement. Yes, uh, but no doctrinal, uh, alignment.

Nelson [15:18]:
Now with WCC. So we— I worked there as a deputy general secretary for 7 years.

Don [15:25]:
Wow.

Don [15:26]:
Is that a lot of travel around?

Nelson [15:27]:
A lot of travel around the country and a little bit of outside and just experience the church. The movement brings together about 33 churches, denominations, major missionary planted denominations.

Nelson [15:44]:
And a few indigenous denominations. About 33% of the Kenyan population, right, are communicants in those churches. Okay. When I finished, I transitioned to the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya. Okay, you did switch over there as the general secretary.

Don [16:06]:
Okay, which—what year was that?

Nelson [16:07]:
Uh, that was, uh, 2000.

Don [16:10]:
2000.

Nelson [16:11]:
Yes, 2000.

Don [16:12]:
And you transitioned to 25 years ago.

Nelson [16:15]:
No, sorry, 2020.

Don [16:18]:
2020.

Don [16:18]:
5 years ago.

Nelson [16:20]:
2020. Yes, 5 years ago. Sorry, 2020.

Don [16:22]:
It's a little more recent.

Nelson [16:23]:
Yes, it's more recent. 2020, uh, joined, uh, the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya as the general secretary. Right now, the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya is the one that now is a member World Evangelical Alliance. Okay.

Don [16:38]:
And is it similar size or bigger or just different?

Nelson [16:40]:
It is slightly smaller. It is about, uh, if you like, it's about 20% of the population in terms of the census, right? But in terms of the Kenyan believers who see themselves as evangelical, right, we are almost— it could be about 49%. Okay. Of the Kenyan population.

Don [17:03]:
Of the evangelicals. Oh, I see.

Nelson [17:05]:
Oh, yes, yes.

Don [17:05]:
Because you're representing evangelicals.

Nelson [17:07]:
Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it will be about 49% of Kenyans who view themselves as 49%. So worked for the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya for a period of, until last, until 2023 December when I transitioned to become the Vice Chancellor. And held, uh, had a dual role as a, as a, as we supported transition at the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya until June 2024, when I fully handed over the leadership of the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya.

Don [17:43]:
So it was just over a year ago, over a year ago you finished.

Nelson [17:47]:
Yeah, yeah. And, uh, continued in my role which I had picked up in January last year as the Vice Chancellor which you call president of this, uh, premier university. A bit of AIU. AIU is a school of, um, uh, the Evangelicals in Africa, Association of Evangelicals in Africa. Began in 1983 as a Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology, uh, with a clear objective to train Christian leaders, uh, at graduate level, both for the church and for the Christian marketplace, and for translation movements on the continent, and seminaries that were just beginning to form. So launched in 1983 after a vision of Byang Kato, taken over by Tokunboh Adeyemo. Who succeeded Byang Kato after he had died a tragic death. And, uh, since then we have been graduating students in theology particularly. And Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology is the second Kenyan institution to issue degrees after the University of Nairobi. Okay, so, so we have such a huge— officially certified degrees graduate degrees. Yes, yes, and their graduate degrees. And so we have had a proficiency as an institution in graduate studies, in biblical studies, in missions, in church history, pastoral studies, Christian education, and translation studies. And to that extent, then, the university transformed from NEXT to a full-fledged university in 2011. And rebranded to Africa International University. Now we have 4 schools since then. The mother school, Nairobi Evangelical Graduate School of Theology, and then School of Education, Arts, and Social Sciences, SEAS, School of Business and Economics, and then we have a School of Computing and Emerging Technologies. We will soon be launching School of Law, and, and for us It's a dream and a desire to be able to be a catalyst for transformation in the marketplace, to be able to fill up the marketplace with servant, Christ-centered leaders. And appreciating that Africa is going to be perhaps the Christian continent of the future going forward. And with that knowledge, we then need to be able to engage at all levels, not just training Christian workers only in the Christian church, but training Christian workers in the marketplace. And so the concept of a Christian university for us that integrates faith and learning is central. And our School of Theology is the one that then breathes life to the rest of the programs and the institutions. All our students who come, the ones who come to the School of Theology, we require of them to be believers and have a recommendation from their churches and a sense of calling.

Nelson [21:20]:
But for the rest of the schools, they come as they are, knowing it's a Christian school, knowing it's a Christian school. We even have some Muslim students. They come and a few of them have had a great encounter of Christ on this campus. Today about 3,000 students. And we aspire that in another 2 or 3 years, the Lord willing, we'll be able to bring those numbers to about 5,000, 6,000 students. But let me just sum up a bit about what I have experienced out there. And how I see the ministry and the church.

Nelson [21:59]:
The church in Africa and the church in Kenya is perhaps faced with what Bishop Oscar Mbryu will call giants. I invited Bishop Oscar to come and speak to church leaders, bishops who lead the Evangelical Alliance of Kenya denominations, about 80 of them, and asked him to look at the challenge of leadership that the church is faced with. And he faced his talk with the passage of David and Goliath and said, if we are going to succeed in leadership, then we must deal deal with the next 6 giants. I do think that maybe there's one or two more that we need to add on it, but let me just refresh those giants because I think he captured them very successfully. And I think that is the task that we must all face as a church. Giant number 1 is the challenge the youth bulge. Africa is the youngest continent, if you like.

Don [23:24]:
Yeah, the biggest majority of young people.

Nelson [23:25]:
Majority of young people. Yes. I mean, the bulk of our population, 70% of Africa population, is below 35. In some countries it may be about 78%. The median age of about 19, 20 years on the continent. Some countries are as young as 15 years, Uganda, Benin, and such countries, younger. Kenya, about 19 and a half years median age. So that challenge demands that we are doing training We are doing education. We are skilling these young people to take up, uh, not just jobs but careers, uh, not just in Kenya, not just in Africa, but globally. These are going to be global citizens. This will not be educated to work in Africa, these are going to work for the world. Amen.

Don [24:36]:
For the kingdom of God in the world.

Nelson [24:38]:
And so the church here must be alive to that fact. We must ensure that we are witnessing, but not just witnessing, but that we are training these young people and young professionals with training that is, that has Christian faith inbuilt, that is ethical, that sets their mind on mission. So that as they leave here to go to the global north, either as students or as young professionals, they are carrying the gospel alongside themselves. And they see themselves as agents of Christ in the institutions that the Lord places them, wherever he places them. And with that mindset, perhaps Africa is going to be that one continent that has missionaries who send money back home. Missionaries that came from the North did not send money back home. They came with their money, right? But the African young man leaving this continent to go and work in the US, right, will become a missionary there who witness to Christ, but will work in the Silicon Valley and send money back home.

Don [26:04]:
It's a switching on their head.

Nelson [26:06]:
Yes, yes. So it's, it's, so we must be alive for that fact. And, and so this, so the church must invest in education. The church must invest in the youth if we want to see the next generation of disciples of Christ. And so it's a challenge for the church on this continent, and we must be alive to it. And so for those of us who are involved in education, we must be alive and conscious that the young people who come to us, and those of us who do ministry among young people, like what FOCUS is doing, Fellowship of Christian Unions, and Scripture Union and others. We must be alive to that fact that we are training global citizens and discipling global citizens. Challenge number 2.

Don [26:55]:
Okay. I actually don't want this to become a whole thing about the Kenyan church.

Nelson [27:02]:
Yes, yes.

Don [27:03]:
So maybe you can just hold that unless there's one burning part you want to speak about. It would be nice if you could share something a little bit about what we've been talking about is what you've been doing and the responsibilities you've been given and the service you're doing.

Don [27:22]:
Can you talk a little bit about the interior life, what it's been like as a Christian and how you've kept your faith vibrant and the role of your local fellowship or your family? Just What does that look like? If someone's looking at you saying, "So how does Dr. Mukanda do all this and still stay in love with Jesus?" How does that work for you?

Nelson [27:47]:
So I think for me what has been helpful as I have walked with Christ are those disciplines you learn earlier in life, particularly in high school and during my campus days, in my discipleship with the student ministry.

Nelson [28:04]:
Bible study, keeping your quiet time and reading and meditating on scripture, being part of a small group where you study God's word and share life together.

Nelson [28:21]:
And identifying all the Christians who are, who can be mentors to you and who you can who can openly speak about your life, who can ask you questions that your peers will not ask you about. And they have walked that journey and they're able to speak into your life.

Don [28:45]:
So during these years of national leadership and traveling, you were able to stay connected to a local church?

Nelson [28:52]:
I am still connected to a local church.

Don [28:54]:
In a small group in the church?

Nelson [28:56]:
Small group in the church. We call them home group fellowships. Yeah, that meets about 5, 6 different households. Yes, meeting together to study God's word weekly. And since COVID since we have learned to do this with, um, with Zoom, okay, virtually, we are able to engage even when you're traveling. And having one or two other people around me who, they're not members of these groups, but they are older Christians and mentors. And I have kept fellowship with them, and that has really helped to nourish me and to anchor me in Christ. And even having fellowship with the global church, other Christians from the rest of the world in different Christian ministries. Whom I look up to, has been a great blessing for my own faith, for that of my family, and for the institution that the Lord has put me to work or even to lead, as I have had in the last few years. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Don [30:09]:
Now you were going through the challenges.

Don [30:13]:
Maybe you'll come back to that. But if there's one or two things that you feel really like called of God or convicted, passionate about that you would like to communicate, that you feel that people need to know, they need to understand. I remember once we had a conversation about your doctoral studies, exegesis of a particular passage. You could go there if you want to. But just if there's something that's really close to your heart that sort of expresses who you are and why you're doing what you're doing.

Nelson [30:51]:
I think for me it's an acknowledgement that the center of Christianity is shifting. Yes. Not just to the Global South. Perhaps to Africa. And there have been talks in the recent days that that center might actually be in Kenya or Nairobi. And you can begin to sense movement of mission agencies Towards Nairobi, Kenya, and you see even Christian conferencing and things like that. So God is doing something.

Nelson [31:40]:
And God is at work on this continent.

Don [31:45]:
Amen.

Nelson [31:45]:
And so for me, I must be able to sense that timing and be able to appropriately apply myself in the roles that I am playing. How do we as an institution, Africa International University, uh, be part of what God is doing? Uh, and I'm convinced that we must be catalysts in two ways.

Nelson [32:21]:
One, is that we must partner with agencies that are doing training of pastors on the continent to ensure—

Don [32:33]:
Carol, your wife is doing some of that.

Nelson [32:35]:
My wife is doing some of that, and you'll be hearing. So strengthening part of what things like what Carol is doing through Africa Rural Trainers and all such movements on the continent. So that our pastors are strengthened. Yes, the better the pastor, the healthier the church, and the healthier the mission of Christ, the rest of the world. So that is number one, and I think we must mobilize Christians on the continent and resources towards that mission and ministry. Of strengthening the pastor.

Don [33:17]:
I feel like I saw an example of that just on Sunday.

Nelson [33:21]:
Okay.

Don [33:22]:
I went to the— I always forget the names of your churches, but it's a big Pentecostal church, 8,000.

Don [33:29]:
Okay.

Don [33:29]:
And the month of September is their mission focus, and they're preaching on the Great Commission.

Nelson [33:33]:
Yes.

Don [33:33]:
And they're training up leaders all the time.

Nelson [33:36]:
Yes.

Don [33:37]:
And they're just a very healthy, thriving church.

Nelson [33:40]:
CITAM?

Don [33:41]:
Yes, CITAM. Yes, the mother church, on Valley Road.

Nelson [33:45]:
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. It is a Christ is the Answer Ministries. Yes.

Don [33:49]:
So that's, to me, that's sort of an illustration of the kind of thing God is doing in Africa.

Nelson [33:54]:
Yes.

Don [33:54]:
That you see. Yeah.

Nelson [33:56]:
And we must invest there.

Don [33:57]:
Yes.

Nelson [33:58]:
The capacity of the pastors of CITAM needs to be replicated in all the other churches.

Nelson [34:05]:
And you will see then what CITAM is doing. They are planting churches in Romania. Yes, they're planting churches in the US, and, and not diaspora churches, right? Cross-cultural churches, cross-cultural ministries. And, and that can only happen if we strengthen the local church. Yeah. And you can't strengthen the local church if the pastor is not equipped and retooled. So that's the first thing. That for me is number one. But Number 2 is that we must be able to establish Christian orthodoxy and thought leadership for the future that starts from Africa. Because as the rest of the world becomes secular and the church shrinks very soon you begin to see that their theological foundations and institutions are also going to shrink. Africa must be the base for Christian thought leadership, evangelical Christian thought leadership. And so for us as an institution then is to invest there. We must invest in theological training at highest level. And by God's grace, we dream that in the next few years, 5 to 10 years, we should be able to graduate over 50 different PhDs in theology every year. Wow. Because the world will be knocking at our doors for theological leadership across the church, and, and, and, and, and we must be able be ready for that task. And so my heart is focused on that, and we are seeking to invest in that area so that we are supporting the church in the grassroots and we are supporting the church in thought leadership.

Don [36:07]:
If indeed the next period of global church is going to be resourced and centered out of Africa, which is quite like— it already is in many ways.

Don [36:20]:
When I look at the church in the West and how so many denominations have drifted liberal and lost their way and they shrink and then go apostate, having this kind of effective training of leaders is going to be key to keep the African church on track as well because not every church in Tanzania is a thriving evangelical church, as you've referenced already.

Nelson [36:46]:
Yes, yeah. So for us, it's to hold those two together and see how can we make an impact in both, together with others who are seeking to do the same, holding our hands together. Mobilizing resources, and serving God through the local church and through a Christian academy that allows us to be able to provide leadership. But then, if I may add, is how do we influence the moral fabric of our leadership? The continent. As I have led and worked across the church in this country and traveled a bit on the continent, I think there's a loose end that needs to be tied together. Okay. And it's about leadership. That is morally sound, that is ethical in the practices of leadership, that thinks about the people and not themselves.

Don [38:10]:
It's a service leadership, rather.

Nelson [38:11]:
Yes, yes, that, that serves the people that the Lord has entrusted them to lead in whatever sphere. Yeah. And, and, and that might be the loose end that might make Africa to drop that global leadership. That needs to be fixed. And you perhaps are starting early through maybe a children ministry right from the church, school ministry, university ministry, and in building our, our studies, our academics with values and moral fiber that cuts across our academic programming so that then as young people graduate out of our schools and out of our universities, their hearts are prepared for leadership and for service. Not just their minds and their hands, but also their hearts are prepared. So the challenge of ethical leadership, I think, is going to be one that we must fix as a continent if we need to be able to take up the invitation that God has given to us to provide leadership.

Don [39:37]:
Yeah. Wow.

Nelson [39:37]:
Yeah.

Don [39:37]:
I would like to go a different direction.

Nelson [39:39]:
Yes, please.

Don [39:40]:
Maybe the last question. It's about 40 minutes now.

Nelson [39:43]:
Yes.

Don [39:46]:
5 minutes before you need to leave here. But in my observation, people who God is using in strong ways in leadership and ministry, they've often gone through points in their life where there's been some pretty deep suffering and some hard times and hard places that out of that tends to forge a stronger character that God puts you in further levels of leadership. Is there anything like that in your life that you could share about, or any period of time when it was very painful or difficult, that God met you in that dark time? I mean, maybe you didn't have it.

Nelson [40:28]:
I've had a few sessions, seasons like that. And recently I've been reading 'Mansions of the Heart', which tries to center Christian growth around the subject of suffering.

Nelson [40:52]:
And for me, I had a 2009, the major health challenge Okay, I went through brain surgery, the brain tumor. Oh wow. And I was just beginning my pastoral ministry, and it was very quick, happened, gotten well, headaches, went to hospital, they said it was this, but by God's grace I transitioned very quickly. Okay. I was young and, and, and, and got healing very quickly. But in 2013, um, something else happened. I encountered breast cancer. Wow. And, uh, was treated for breast cancer, did surgery here, um, removed the lump, went to India, removed the breast and some lymph nodes But while going through that, fear of death was very real. Wow. And I had met a doctor who told me that our results in treating cancer are not very good. Maybe about 3% of the patients we encounter here in Kenya will live up to 5 years.

Don [42:21]:
For that kind of cancer?

Nelson [42:22]:
Post-diagnosis, general. But then in breast cancer, it's rare in men. So he said we don't have statistics. Right. So I'm not sure. But then he told me, you need to find a way to change your lifestyle, change your diet, and think about healthy living. So as I stayed in India going through surgery prescription, the Lord confronted me and told me, Nelson, it's not cancer that is terminal, it's life in this body that is terminal. It's this life that is mortal. It's not cancer. And so anything can happen to you and you will die. Yes. And for me, that helped me to realign my ministry, how I live, what I do. How I lead and value people when I encounter them and just serve God faithfully with my life. And since 2013, I've been on a journey to serve God. I do not know what it is that he is doing with my life and that He will eventually do, but I seek every day to make it count with the people that I meet, with the work that I do, live with contentment, and just serve God faithfully in my little spaces and see His kingdom established, not just in my life, but in the lives of other people that God brings my way.

Don [44:38]:
If you had the opportunity to give a message to your 20-year-old self, looking back on this life, is there any encouragement? Or if you think of your children that age, is there one thought you'd like to share with younger generation? I mean, you spend your time with them now because you're at the university.

Nelson [45:02]:
Yeah, yeah. Find Christ early, okay, and stick with him and serve him. He will serve you. He will open up doors for you. And the critical opportunity that this generation has with Internet of Things that did not exist. I mean, young people, you have the opportunity to, to work from your bedrooms, never even to dress up in the morning to go to work. It's not necessarily an opportunity, but yes, so, so use that opportunity well and, and use the gifts that the Lord has given to you. Each one of you is specially gifted by God, but those gifts find meaning if you find Christ. And so I would like to encourage as many as those that might listen and hear this, and if you watch this, wherever they are, to know that there's a God who desires that every life is given to him and that every gift, whether professional or otherwise, is used for his kingdom. And so mine is to encourage the young people to find Christ early in life and walk with him.

Don [46:33]:
That's a good word.

Nelson [46:34]:
Thank you.

Don [46:35]:
Thank you, brother, as you go off to speak in chapel. Is this the opening chapel of the year?

Nelson [46:41]:
We started on Tuesday. Today is the third chapel.

Don [46:45]:
Thank you for taking time and bless you and we'll be in touch, we'll stay in touch.

Don [46:50]:
Well, I expect that you were challenged, inspired, encouraged by the conversation with Nelson as I was. I encourage you as you watch these episodes or listen to the Reflexio podcast that you let your friends know and get the word out. And when you watch, if you give a thumbs up and make comments, all of that helps get more people to listen to these stories as we talk with people from around the world.

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