Hardship, Healing, and House Churches in South Asia

00:00:00
Don
So welcome again to Reflexio. I'm your host Don Little. And in this episode we're going to talk with Zafrin Billah. I met him in a conference last fall in Asia. He lives in a country in South Asia and he has a remarkable story. I just met with him online last week and talked to him about his life in preparation for our conversation here on the podcast.

I'm looking forward to talking with him in a few minutes. We're going to talk about his life, his background, how God brought him to faith from a very devout Muslim family, his troubled childhood. But then we're going to focus more on what he is doing now, his ministry of church planting. He is doing some remarkable ministry in his country and seeing house churches established... I hope you'll enjoy this episode of Reflexio.

00:01:02.69
Don
So welcome, Zafrin, the Reflexio podcast. I've been looking forward to this conversation for quite a while.

00:01:09.83
Zafrin Billah
Thanks a lot, brother. I'm thankful to Lord for this nice opportunity and have some conversation with you. Praise God.

00:01:20.39
Don
So can you just first just sort of briefly introduce yourself, share something about you know what part of the world you're in about your family, your your context, and then we'll get into the details.

00:01:33.96
Zafrin
Sure, sure. Actually, my name is Zafrin Billah. I am from one of the biggest Muslim countries of South Asia.

00:01:45.16
Zafrin
So God blessed me with a wife and I have two kids, one son and one daughter. And actually i am um introduced, I like to introduce myself as a full-time missionary because I am a missionary for God's kingdom.

00:02:02.03
Don
Amen. that

00:02:01.82
Zafrin
It's my, actually, my designation, my recognition, everything. Thank you.

00:02:09.38
Don
Wow, that's your identity.

00:02:11.65
Zafrin
Yeah.

00:02:12.07
Don
Yes. So um when we talked last week, you told me quite a bit of the story of how God led you to himself, the suffering, the struggles.

00:02:26.37
Don
We don't have time on this podcast to go through the whole story, but can you tell like the 10 minute version? I'd love to hear giving glory to Jesus, how he worked in your life.

00:02:38.18
Zafrin
Sure, sure. Because it's my life story. It's a long story and I am trying to be in 10 minutes. oh Because in my life, I was searching for the path of salvation.

00:02:51.46
Zafrin
In the very first time, I needed the assurance of eternal peace.

00:02:56.55
Don
Mm-hmm.

00:02:56.97
Zafrin
Because um I'm from a very devolved Muslim li family. It was so respected. Families are one of the states of South Asian country. It's the largest Muslim country. and My ancestors actually come in this country from Iraq, Baghdad to Beijing Muslim.

00:03:20.36
Zafrin
So you can't know that how devout they are. and They're actually so much scholar in Quran and Hadith in that time, it in that British era. It's near about 200 years or 300 years ago they came in this land. So all the people of my family is known as Munshi family, means scholar.

00:03:41.89
Zafrin
They are scholar in Quran and Hadid.

00:03:44.48
Don
There's a lot of colors.

00:03:44.21
Zafrin
So as scholars.

00:03:45.06
Don
Wow. Wow.

00:03:47.91
Zafrin
So ah in this family, when I grew up, gradually I have to practice the re religious studies, five times prayer, reading Quran,

00:03:59.43
Zafrin
like that. So I practiced in my childhood to my adolescent but with Maulana. All the time I read the Quran Arabic language. So but we have to memorize this.

00:04:11.08
Zafrin
We have to memorize this because it is not available in the time in my childhood. It's not translated in Bengali in that time.

00:04:19.20
Don
Mm-hmm.

00:04:20.04
Zafrin
so ah So we have to memorize. But I didn't get any things. I cannot understand even what. What I'm reading. But every time my ah parents are asking me to actually pray regarding the right path, the righteous path. So it was a question to me if I was the right path.

00:04:44.04
Zafrin
So or why I have to pray for this? So so I got confused in this in the stage. And I got so much confusion. So in that time, actually, I didn't get any peace in my heart when I grew up.

00:05:01.19
Zafrin
And ah I actually started the assurance. Is there assurance of my salvation? is that Is there any kinds of assurance for my eternal peace? I didn't get anything.

00:05:12.61
Zafrin
So I actually got so much frustrated. And through this way, I actually leading the worldly life and going to drug addict.

00:05:25.12
Zafrin
I'm going to have to take drugs.

00:05:28.29
Don
Okay. Wow. So you you rejected it.

00:05:29.61
Zafrin
Okay. cause so so And also I was em involved in some research. Unsocial activities like I'm ah taking gun, knives, and all the time I'm in a fighting mood. All the time.

00:05:43.91
Zafrin
And every time, actually, I feel that I'm a proud Muslim. I have to stand there because I am the right way.

00:05:54.53
Zafrin
My book is right. My religion is right. Especially Christianity is totally character religious.

00:06:01.74
Don
Yes, you were taught.

00:06:02.85
Zafrin
It's apart from ah Muslim religion. So all the time I actually feel peace, in internal peace when I can persecuted one of the Christians.

00:06:12.90
Don
So you got more peace.

00:06:12.68
Zafrin
So it was my hobby.

00:06:14.92
Don
You felt better about when you persecuted Christians.

00:06:15.43
Zafrin
Yeah, I got mental peace. Yeah, but when I go next but could but persecuted a Christian, I feel mental peace. Oh, I did some great things in that time. So in that time, actually in 1990,

00:06:31.91
Zafrin
So I got a relationship with the Christian girls. She was Christian. And I thought that if I could marry her and convert her to Islam, I will get a great reward. Because I don't have any assurance for eternal peace. But if I can convert her, then it will be a reward.

00:06:50.98
Zafrin
So I actually convinced her to come with me against her family. Come to me and we'll marry. Then she said, okay, I can.

00:07:02.85
Zafrin
But I have a, and you should have to make some condition with me. That we each other will follow our own religion. No one will convert.

00:07:15.08
Zafrin
Then I said, okay, come on. But er when she came to me, I actually said, no, it's not possible for me to marry you.

00:07:25.07
Don
because

00:07:25.22
Zafrin
And she cried a lot. She cried a lot because she has no options. She has no options in that time.

00:07:31.50
Don
can you explain what you mean why she had no options?

00:07:36.65
Zafrin
Because ah she didn't get back to her family in this our country's actually context. If anyone come through from their house, especially girls, this family is that didn't take her back.

00:07:54.100
Don
Okay.

00:07:55.100
Zafrin
it's a socialization problem.

00:07:58.02
Don
Because she went to be a Muslim man, her family wouldn't take her back.

00:07:58.02
Zafrin
So, yeah,

00:08:01.67
Zafrin
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:02.23
Don
Okay.

00:08:04.49
Zafrin
So, also at last, ah she actually agreed to marry me, but because ah she has no option, she has no choice, and ah I actually, first all, made her actually receive the Kalima in front of a Maulana and take her to the court and convert her as a Muslim.

00:08:24.26
Don
So what is Dr.

00:08:23.94
Zafrin
and actually Kalima, Kalima it means the prayer to accept Muslims.

00:08:31.75
Don
The Shahada? Yeah.

00:08:33.40
Zafrin
Yeah Kalima, Shahada. Yeah.

00:08:35.45
Don
Yeah. Okay.

00:08:36.55
Zafrin
And actually ah she accept this letter religion, except this religion to marry me but she didn't truly accept this in her heart.

00:08:50.66
Zafrin
And our ah my married life began, but she sometimes secretly do practice of her previous religion, Christian religion. She read the Bible, do the worship and cried. And um I came to know from my sister that she's practicing.

00:09:09.16
Zafrin
I came to know from my sister that she's practicing behind me. When I was not home, she's practicing. So I went to her and caught her several times. I slapped her.

00:09:19.65
Zafrin
And I threw the Bible. that You could not do that. But ah and like that, our life is going. My wife is secretly going around it.

00:09:31.02
Zafrin
She didn't do any practice in front of me or others. I didn't know anything regarding in this time or what she did.

00:09:36.46
Don
Right.

00:09:39.30
Zafrin
But after two years passed like that, and God blessed us with daughters. But from the very beginning, she was suffering from breathing problem.

00:09:51.81
Zafrin
She has a lot of breathing problem. I took her to the best doctor of my countries. many I took her to many doctors, but no one can identify her illness.

00:10:02.50
Zafrin
And they said that as everything, organ is fine. or We don't know what is happening there. So it seems to me that I did a sin. I did sin. I stopped practice all my religious activities. So I need to, again, practice my religion very hardly, very strongly. So I started five times prayer. I started reading the Quran.

00:10:23.52
Zafrin
Even I started extra prayer, like tazut. Tazut is ah one kind of prayer. It was held in the middle of the night.

00:10:32.64
Don
Wow.

00:10:32.68
Zafrin
And many days I have passed crying in mosque. I passed the whole night.

00:10:39.72
Don
So you were asking God to heal your daughter.

00:10:39.49
Zafrin
But

00:10:42.53
Don
This is what was making it.

00:10:43.37
Zafrin
yeah, yeah, my my my my Muslim God.

00:10:44.52
Don
So you thought you if you thought you would be more religious, then God would maybe answer your prayer.

00:10:47.62
Zafrin
My Muslim God.

00:10:54.37
Zafrin
Yeah, yeah.

00:10:54.99
Don
Yeah.

00:10:56.26
Zafrin
So, up but total three years I did the practice. But I didn't get any kinds of answer of my prayer. So I actually got hopeless.

00:11:08.49
Zafrin
I left all my hope, all my faith. It seems to me there is no that. So in the time, actually, when my daughter says it's three years, she was suffering from her breathing problem one day, and I was lying beside her and crying. I have no hope because I tried worldly through the doctor. I tried the spiritually through the Muslim God.

00:11:33.03
Zafrin
But I didn't get any kinds of answers. So I don't have anything to do. So in the time, my daughter actually said to me, Father, are you crying?

00:11:43.94
Zafrin
She just said it, three years old, girl. And I said, yes. Then she said, could you please arrange a prayer meeting for me? Then I asked her, what kinds of prayer meeting you're talking about?

00:11:56.13
Zafrin
What is the prayer meeting? She said, oh, I'm telling you the truth. Mom, take me several places. She did it secretly with some of his friends.

00:12:08.65
Zafrin
They prayed, they read some books, they sing some songs, and they prayed. Then I got actually surprised. Wow, what is, what my daughter is talking about.

00:12:22.15
Zafrin
And suddenly, in that time, my wife entered the in this room and seeing that all my daughter is actually telling me all the truth. All the things was hidden.

00:12:35.30
Don
about her secret practice.

00:12:34.98
Zafrin
hidden She disclosed it.

00:12:37.89
Don
yeah

00:12:38.12
Zafrin
Yeah, secret matter. She disclosed and she got so much frightened because she know that I'm not a good man. I'm a very bad man. I can slap her. I can beat her. Even I can kill her.

00:12:53.09
Zafrin
But in that time actually done,

00:12:57.19
Zafrin
I didn't get any kinds of anger. I didn't feel any kinds of anger in my heart. And I went to her and said that, will we please arrange a call, a prayer meeting for our daughter, Ceiling, as your faith?

00:13:12.48
Don
Because left one. Yeah.

00:13:16.10
Zafrin
Then she got surprised. She said, ah are you talking that Jeffrey will talk? Yes, but one condition. You have to take the challenge.

00:13:27.27
Zafrin
If your God don't heal my daughter, then you have to leave your faith also.

00:13:35.37
Don
i've left

00:13:35.05
Zafrin
You have to be with me that there is no God. You and I, both will be the atheists. No God in this world. Then she said, yes, I will take the challenge because I have the confidence upon my God.

00:13:50.89
Zafrin
I know her His power.

00:13:51.40
Don
Okay.

00:13:52.87
Zafrin
Then said, okay, let us see. Then she actually go to some of her Christian friends and arrange a prayer meeting. And in the evening, that evening, they actually arrange a prayer meeting. And they're all together in my house.

00:14:09.70
Zafrin
And they're singing a song, singing some songs, worshipping. Now I know it's worshipping. But in that time, it's filled to me. They're singing a song. and they were actually reading the scripture and they laid hands upon my daughter and hunted her through the while and prayed.

00:14:28.40
Zafrin
Suddenly my daughter got asleep.

00:14:31.75
Don
She fell asleep.

00:14:35.80
Zafrin
It seems to me that it's a natural thing. A little girl, she's hearing the song so she may sleep.

00:14:42.28
Don
Yeah.

00:14:42.57
Zafrin
So i don in that day, whole night I was asleep. I was not sleeping. I was out beside her and just observing.

00:14:51.75
Don
You were with her, watching her. Yes.

00:14:54.64
Zafrin
Observing and watching. and There's no health issue. otherwise But it seems to me, it's maybe. I have to check. Next couple of days.

00:15:06.76
Zafrin
And I checked. I checked like that three months.

00:15:12.67
Don
for three months to see if she...

00:15:13.64
Zafrin
I actually left my all my duties.

00:15:14.77
Don
It can't be true.

00:15:16.71
Zafrin
All my job. to just observe her because I am trying to seek a hole regarding this gut. that the evening in evening Yeah, I am seeking the hole.

00:15:27.69
Don
happy betros

00:15:32.76
Zafrin
But no, in three months I didn't get any kinds of acquisition regarding this gut. Any kinds of acquisition.

00:15:39.78
Don
So miss page here your daughter was healed that night and she never had her problem again?

00:15:43.40
Zafrin
Yeah, she is completely healed.

00:15:45.89
Don
Wow.

00:15:46.78
Zafrin
She is completely healed. In that time I got surprised. I feel myself that I have to search, i have to learn about the supernatural power.

00:15:58.12
Zafrin
What is the supernatural power? In that time I asked my wife, can you give me some Bible? I want to know regarding your gut that she provided me, this one. I threw from her hand.

00:16:11.49
Zafrin
And also when I read, i um it seems to me that maximum thing I know. I know, I know, maximum, but because every single story I know a little bit, because in Quran, yeah, it's the same story from I heard from the actually imams, from the imams, they got matched, but it's more described.

00:16:26.25
Don
heard the stories. Yes.

00:16:38.79
Zafrin
There is more described. So I think that, oh no, I need to read the Quran again in Bengali translation. In that time, the Bengali translation has been published.

00:16:50.05
Zafrin
So I brought this and actually I read this comparatively, the book things.

00:16:50.44
Don
yes

00:16:56.18
Don
compare the Bible with the corals and forth.

00:16:56.49
Zafrin
And after that, yeah, but the story from the Bible, story from the Quran, and it seems to me that Well, there is some actually gap in this place. Because in Bible it is more describable.

00:17:11.01
Zafrin
The story is fulfilled and in a second one position, one place. But Quran is scattered. Here, there, here, there. Like that. The story is not fulfilled. And also a some of the verses actually I got surprised when I read in Bengali in Surah Al-Imran. There are Al-Asik.

00:17:32.01
Zafrin
I like saying that you will keep the believers who are disciples of Jesus, he will make them winner upon everyone. In Sura Maryam, Jesus is said that sura In Sura in Sura Maryam, that peace upon me when I was born, born I was died and I was resurrected.

00:17:55.53
Zafrin
But um Muslim um scholars and Imams, they are saying that, no, Jesus didn't die. But in Quran, Isa, Isa is i saying that.

00:18:07.82
Don
Yes.

00:18:07.65
Zafrin
And also in Sura Maida that in in Surah Maida, I come to know that, that, if we don't believe on other books, previous books like Torah, Zabur, Injil and Bible, we don't have ah full faith upon that.

00:18:28.49
Zafrin
We are not in any faith. So I actually like that. So I think that yes, that is the right way because all the year, all my life I'm searching, I'm telling, give me show me the right path, but in Quran,

00:18:44.90
Zafrin
as I saw the right path because I have to go to the previous book and the previous book, Isa is saying that I am the straight and right path in the life.

00:18:56.81
Don
Yes.

00:18:56.84
Zafrin
So after three years comparatively starting, I accept Jesus 2008.

00:19:03.27
Don
So cleaners three years of study and searching after your daughter was healed.

00:19:03.08
Zafrin
So it's my story of depression.

00:19:09.83
Zafrin
Yeah.

00:19:11.23
Don
Wow. Wow. So.

00:19:13.51
Zafrin
But because sometimes it seems to me coincidence that she might be. She might be.

00:19:17.95
Don
Yeah, yeah.

00:19:17.75
Zafrin
But I have to search the supernatural power.

00:19:21.62
Don
It wasn't dramatic. it just She just slept and she was okay. So you came to faith and now you're a full-time missionary.

00:19:26.08
Zafrin
Yeah, she's saying.

00:19:30.59
Don
Can you tell just briefly, did you go to school? Did you study? you know How did you train? Just a little bit of that story.

00:19:39.65
Zafrin
Sure, sure. I will. Because after I got the baptism, after I accept Jesus, it was actually 12 years I have passed like a normal believer.

00:19:56.73
Zafrin
I'm trying to do the prayer. Sometimes I could, sometimes I could not, sometimes I try to join, just like a normal, actually, believer. And in that time, actually, God used me various national and international organizations, development organizations. In this case, I felt like that I was practicing my religion by serving the helpless people through the development organization.

00:20:19.82
Zafrin
it' It's ah actually, I'm feeling that. But this happened in 2020. During the COVID period, when I was working in a high position in one of the largest organization of our country,

00:20:34.47
Zafrin
But in that time, i actually we actually could not go the office, go to the outside because it's locked up.

00:20:41.33
Don
Right.

00:20:41.19
Zafrin
So I used to join various Zoom prayer meeting.

00:20:41.79
Don
Uh-huh.

00:20:47.13
Zafrin
Prayer meeting through Zoom, online Zoom meeting. One day it was, finished the Zoom, it was 4 a.m. I got so much tired. I went to sleep and...

00:21:02.18
Zafrin
I actually, when I go to the bed, i instantly I got sleep. and I am so much weak. better So suddenly I saw in my dream that I was in a very dark, long tunnel.

00:21:19.05
Don
Yes. Right.

00:21:20.45
Zafrin
It's my dream, that ah that tunnel and right in front of me, the end of the tunnel, there is a very bright light.

00:21:29.51
Zafrin
It's the long end. There's a very bright light and I could saw a man. I saw a man who was standing in the middle of the light and me.

00:21:41.83
Zafrin
He was standing. Due to the bright light, I could not be able to see his face, but I could recognize his structure, his dress up, his hairstyle, everything is like Jesus.

00:21:55.38
Don
Yes.

00:21:55.46
Zafrin
So he he called me three times by my name. And I actually feel enunciated in that time. Because why this man is calling me? I just go to sleep.

00:22:09.93
Zafrin
whole night I did the prayer. And I said, what happened? Why are calling me Then he asked, what are you doing? Then actually I said, I can remember it.

00:22:21.86
Zafrin
Clearly, I can clearly remember. I said, don't you see I am sleeping? Why are you calling me? he said, wake up. Then I asked to him, what I'll do?

00:22:33.86
Zafrin
Then he said, leave your worldly job and work for my kingdom. And he got vanished. I actually wake up. I saw I am sweating.

00:22:45.41
Zafrin
Lots of sweat in my body. And after that, I could not sleep. And after that, next seven days, I could not sleep, I could not eat, I could not do anything. I just cried.

00:23:00.81
Zafrin
So it was a miserable time for me, the seven days, it seems to me I got mad. And in that time, actually, my daughter and my wife, they arranged a meeting with me, that sit down, we need to talk with you.

00:23:17.50
Zafrin
What's happened to you? Then I asked to them, I told them everything. Then they said, okay, okay, and leave your work job as God said.

00:23:29.09
Zafrin
Then I actually worried. I was too much worried i about the future of my family because I have no savings, but my,

00:23:41.80
Zafrin
what would I do if I leave the job? I don't have any any kinds of savings, how I can run my family.

00:23:48.54
Don
Yes.

00:23:48.36
Zafrin
because had to pay the house rent, I had to pay the education fees, everything. But finally I did what the Lord said to me. I left my worldly job. And in that time, I actually got a chance to join a training called Vision School.

00:24:07.17
Zafrin
It is organized by a Korean organization, Intercept. So from this training, I come to know about that great commission.

00:24:19.37
Zafrin
I came to know that how I can work for the Kingdom by a spreading gospel to others, to the unreached people. that this This language was not in my mind, in my head, in my brain.

00:24:34.33
Don
before.

00:24:34.02
Zafrin
Great Commission, unreached people, these words are very new to me through this spreading and I came to know all these things.

00:24:42.95
Zafrin
And okay, I said to the Lord, okay. Because in the time I was praying, what I'll do then, Isaiah 6:8 came to me as my verse, as my personal verse.

00:24:56.65
Zafrin
Here I am, Lord, send me. And I said, here I am, Lord, send me. Where I'll go then, God gave me a vision to go to the Kashmir of India. And ah I went to Kashmir as a missionary, and this was probably this is the first team from my country, I went to Kashmir as a missionary.

00:25:19.94
Zafrin
We are six in this team. So after some days came back to kind our country and I actually prayed to God that what I can do now. And fortunately, God has connected me through a missionary organization. They are Western.

00:25:44.40
Zafrin
missionary organization, center to the UNBISG.

00:25:47.31
Don
Uh-huh.

00:25:47.46
Zafrin
This organization is the basis of my life and also for my country. They are actually doing partnership and praying for me and upon me as their team leader in my country.

00:26:02.05
Zafrin
And um through this organization, it was an awesome trip of my life. It was an awesome time because through their partnership, I with my team took gospel thousands of people in over 300 villages in 16 regions of our country.

00:26:26.21
Zafrin
The last four years, we visited 300 plus villages. And also through me 50 plus people got baptized. And They have also a more missionaries. that they have a more missionaries in this country near about 16 or 18 missionaries. So I know myself because 50 plus people got baptized through me. It's an opportunity.

00:26:54.89
Zafrin
And meanwhile, in this time, I completed my fourth year's theology diploma course. I was oriented as a pastor. What a wonderful testimony when I actually thinking myself that from a persecutor to a pastor. Only God can transform this.

00:27:14.50
Zafrin
and In that time, actually, I'm leading this organization and as a leader of our country last four years.

00:27:25.93
Zafrin
And this organization is still keeping me their prayer in their prayer. And I love to introduce myself. I love to introduce myself as the missionary of this organization because this connection is in my heart. But Lord give me a vision to take a new step in this year. And this year He gave me a desire to preach. This is a word when I'm praying. See, He just gave me this word, wish to preach. Actually, then I pray. And Lord, help me to understand that I need to reach out my previous faith's people to preach gospel among them. Because know I have heard. I have heard from Muslim background.

00:28:20.34
Zafrin
I have heard from my natives. I have heard from my relatives. Because you know every single person of my family is still remaining Muslim.

00:28:31.78
Zafrin
So I have heard.

00:28:34.29
Don
So you have a heart for your own people?

Zafrin
Yeah, yeah, I have had. I want to meet them in heaven. I didn't go, I don't want to go alone in heaven. I want my family in heaven. I want to rejoice with my family in heaven.

00:28:59.75
Zafrin
But they didn't have the assurance. I have the assurance. I got the ticket, but they didn't get the assurance. So I have a heart. And actually, when I prayed regarding the word, then God told me to reach my people. And how? And then I'm praying how? Then God gave me some vision. Through this vision, actually, we started a training center where only Muslim and Hindu women will be trained in various income generating activities.

00:29:38.02
Zafrin
And ah God has blessed us. God has blessed us with the house churches. Because when I was... with center to the unreached, they actually have the goal to bring the church to the believer's house. Because in our country context, there is some barrier.

00:30:01.77
Zafrin
There is some barrier for the new believers, especially who are from Muslim background, to go to the church. because there is some socialization problem. Also, the churches are not feeling good. The churches were afraid to accept the new believers. They may be persecuted because it is a Muslim country.

00:30:26.28
Don
So can I ask you a question about that?

00:30:32.17
Don
My understanding is that traditionally in your country, the majority of the believers do not come from Muslim background. They come from Hindu background.

00:30:46.63
Don
Is that part of the issue?

00:30:46.82
Zafrin
yeah

00:30:48.42
Don
The churches do not feel comfortable with Muslims coming former Muslims coming into their church? Is that part of what was going on for you?

00:31:01.67
Zafrin
That is also a part, but the main reason is in our country actually Muslims are the majority.

00:31:11.81
Zafrin
The majority are Muslims. Near about 91% or like that this is Muslim that they all are devout.

00:31:23.94
Zafrin
Maximum literacy rate is very low. You're a illiterate. So they've gone fundamentalist. They gone fundamentalist. They are but devout. So they're making mosques.

00:31:39.33
Zafrin
It's a common issue in this country that you're disrespecting my religion. If anyone can raise such kinds of mob, then all the people gathered there, they didn't justify, they don't justify what is actually happening, but they just dismiss, they just destroy, they can destroy everything through one verse that you are actually dissolving my religion, you disrespect my religion.

00:32:14.31
Don
But can I just ask, um right now, you and your wife and daughter are doing outreach locally, and can you just describe a little of what you're doing and how you're nurturing the faith of these believers in their homes?

00:32:35.11
Zafrin
Sure. Actually, we are working inter-dependently among with the believers and non-believers. Two kinds of work we are doing with my family. I'm doing because it is my heart.

00:32:51.53
Zafrin
Among the non-believers, we are sharing the gospel among them. We are trying to introduce Jesus through audio Bible, sometimes we collect audio Bibles from other organizations, or Bible tracts like that. So it's like an outreach. Every week we have some mandatory days that we did outreach for the non-believers and for the believers who are the people of peace.

00:33:24.45
Zafrin
We make relationship with them. We make relationship with them and actually I'm saying that we have a training center.

00:33:28.81
Don
Right. Right.

00:33:36.17
Zafrin
So that there we are giving training for especially for the women. And in every training, we actually, through this training we are sharing gospel among them. We are trying to introduce Jesus among them.

00:33:50.18
Zafrin
So we are making the curriculum like that. And also, we have some house churches with the believers and secret believers. We actually influence the neighborhoods people together in one house weekly.

00:34:07.43
Zafrin
And ah they actually in that place, they do worship, they do the Bible the study.

00:34:07.87
Don
OK. OK.

00:34:15.06
Zafrin
They do the Bible study, even the physical Bible or through the audio Bible, both. Both they hear and they discuss.

00:34:25.80
Zafrin
Because that they can actually... improve one another. They can build up one another through prayer and gospel, sharing and also through scripture reading.

00:34:37.61
Zafrin
And we actually influence them to share gospel because we are influencing them to make disciples, fruitful disciples.

00:34:48.42
Zafrin
Because without disciples making gospel, it should not be spreading more, should be spreading more so actually we are influencing the our house churches our believers to share gospel we get them training we get them training to share gospel. We get them training for discipleship because through the discipleship they can make and we are influencing them to multiplication to make more disciples

00:35:23.27
Zafrin
Because ah every single house's member, we actually give some like target. You pray. You pray that you may make even only two members in a year. Two disciples in a year. And prepare them, build them, and send them. They will make another two. One person will make another two.

00:35:52.87
Don
Can I ask you a question about the discipleship? When people come to faith, ah they come with all kinds of perspectives. For you, it was three years of study before you came to believe in Jesus. What does a true disciple look like for you and how do you help them overcome their non-Christian worldview and develop a biblical understanding of themselves and of God and of faith? What does a disciple really look like and what is the discipleship process? Not just teaching them to share, but how do you help them go deeper as followers of Christ?

00:36:37.22
Zafrin
Actually our first things... It's my personal opinion. Not only my personal opinion also the scripture said that things that we are like a salt and we have to the salty taste. So the most thing of our disciple we actually teach them that you have to live a life like Jesus. Christ-like behaviors. You have to consider that. Through you, people come to know about the behavior of Jesus. So through you, people come to feel interest regarding the Jesus.

00:37:21.48
Zafrin
So a true disciple must be a like a fruitful tree. He have to be fruit. So we are trying to make them like that as we are trying to train them the discipleship training. We are trying to introduce them to increased behaviors the love, the patience, the forgiveness. So it's their foundational we have some foundational training upon the discipleship and through this discipleship training they are increasing day by day.

00:38:08.54
Don
Yes, so in my own thinking and work and discipling, we often find that people sort of know in their head what they're supposed to be like. But it's not the same to change their character. It takes time. It needs the Holy Spirit to transform them. Do you have any insight to share about how you help how do you see this happening yeah in the disciples you're working with so that they actually become salt and light and they become the kind of people that Jesus, rather than they know they're supposed to and they feel bad because they can't be like that?

00:38:53.29
Don
How does the transformation actually happen?

00:38:56.77
Zafrin
Actually, the transformation is first happening in front, in me. I saw the transformation, and my testimony encouraged many youth.

00:39:12.55
Zafrin
Because I know the time that I become the butterfly from the caterpillar. It was a painful time. It was a time of prayer. And ah also God transformed me, a butterfly from the caterpillar, a drug addict to a preacher. Ah evangelist, persecutor to a pastor. Then I shared all these things. And also I can see that discipleship trainings influence even through my house church members.

00:39:46.60
Zafrin
Because when I started house churches through these members, there were some traditional family also. They could not able to join the church regularly due to their livelihood.

00:39:57.06
Zafrin
So I gathered with them and started the house. At the very beginning, they're asking, oh, don't have food. I need to suffer support for my family. But I said that, okay, look to Jesus, not to the people.

00:40:13.99
Zafrin
Now, this actually demanding community, it's a great transformation. Demanding community are my house churches actually gathered themselves and not me.

00:40:27.11
Zafrin
They all together started the training ceremony. They are saying that all the train, all the training costs, we will provide from our tithes, from our money.

00:40:40.81
Zafrin
We now know the taste of giving. If you get to God, then God will provide more blessings to us. So it's actually the scenario of, I can see, I can see the scenario of discipleship among them.

00:41:00.99
Zafrin
They are voluntarily doing the training. They are voluntarily doing all the things. They are providing a housing. They are providing electricity bill, water bill from their own pockets.

00:41:14.46
Zafrin
I don't have any kinds of donor, any kinds of money from the Western world. I don't have anything. I live on faith. I don't have any kinds of income. So I'm seeing that when I raise my hand to Lord, say, here I am, then I don't have any kinds of worldly hope, any kinds of assurance, worldly assurance that someone will give me money. Now my house church is a member of developing such kinds discipleship. So it's a blessing to me.

00:41:49.35
Don
So they are inspired by your own example of the way you're living by faith. And so they trust God also.

00:41:55.40
Zafrin
Yeah, and good, good, good.

00:41:56.59
Don
Yeah.

00:41:56.68
Zafrin
God has used me.

00:41:59.32
Don
Yeah. So and a different question. You mentioned earlier that when you were a teenager, a young adult, you got peace by persecuting Christians. You felt good about yourself.

00:42:15.70
Don
But also in talking before, you talked about some of the persecution that you've faced since you followed Christ from your family to your relatives. Can you tell me sort of something about that experience, but also how it's developed your own theology of suffering? How do you see suffering entering into making you a Christian and the kind of person, the kind of man of God you are?

00:42:41.57
Zafrin
Actually, when I decided to accept Jesus and I got baptized in that time, and I was not a very good man. I was a ferocious man. People frightened me like that because I carry gun like that.

00:43:01.70
Zafrin
But when I actually accepted Jesus, after that, all my communities cut off their communication with me. It seems that ah I'm only in one land. Even my family kicked me out.

00:43:18.28
Zafrin
They took all my father's land. Even my sisters, my sister brother-in-law, they didn't give a single penny from my father's land or father's property. They kicked out me.

00:43:29.89
Zafrin
Because all the communities is beside them. They say, oh, he is a kafir. So you have the right. So, suspect but I'm not get any kinds of actually physical persecution or torturing like that, but I got a serious mental pressure. I had to escape from my city.

00:43:55.30
Zafrin
I had to leave my city. I had to transfer another city with my family for my livelihood. In that time, actually, I got such kinds of persecution like I did not able to get any job in that time because when I accepted Jesus in the time I was working in a Muslim organization, they kicked me out.

00:44:19.69
Zafrin
And after that, when I applied, I will give my bio data curriculum data to other organizations. They say that, oh, you have a Muslim name, but your religion is Christian.

00:44:32.71
Zafrin
So you converted? You have the Western people. Go to the Western people. They will pay you. They will give you the job. But when I went to the Christian organization, applied, They said, oh, you are leaving your religion for money, right?

00:44:48.90
Zafrin
So we don't have money to pay. We don't have job. I got surprised. Even many of our traditional churches didn't accept me to join with them. They sometimes feeling, oh, maybe he's a secret agent of Muslim, like that.

00:45:10.92
Zafrin
So, I was in a pressure, even now also, my son and my daughter are mocking them, people are mocking towards them. Oh, you are the son and daughter of the coffee, like that. they They have no family, they have no people like that. So actually not physical persecution, but social I'm suffering from the social persecution. It's actually a truly hard thing.

And in that time, I was praying. I was praying to God. God, why? Why I am actually in this, like, such kinds of situations? Because you are telling me you will never leave me if you don't allow me to forsake. But why that's happening? Every connection is cutting down. In that time, in my prayer, God actually teach me like that. You are going to be a butterfly from the caterpillar. So you have to face some persecution. You have to face some kinds of situation. that One day I will make a butterfly.

Now, I lost my everything. I lost my property, I lost my father's money, but I got the insurance. I got the big part, as the scripture says. I sold my everything, thing I got the most precious part of the world.

00:46:40.81
Zafrin
My family leave me, but I got a place to Jesus, God's family. It's huge all over the country. You were the maybe a long, long hour from me, but you were a family member of me. So it's my blessings.

00:47:03.53
Don
So, interesting. I have these questions ready, but the way the conversation is going, it's just flowing naturally. So you've dealt with Westerners and Western organizations in your country. Can you tell about the joys of that and the challenges? How have you navigated that dynamic of working with outsiders who are working in your country or working with you. What's it been like?

00:47:34.85
Zafrin
Actually, whenever I work with the Western people in development organization or in missionary organization all the time, I am actually lucky. I got the nice people, beautiful people. Everyone, I got the Western people, all are fine in my life. I didn't actually got more challenges.

00:48:01.38
Zafrin
But ah the there is a little bit of challenges that sometimes they did not try to accept the context of our country like that because the tradition and the culture is not same. Sometimes I need to explain them more. I need some labor to explain like that, but not any conflict, not any other challenges that I felt. Because ah I'm a lucky person, but maybe there are lots of other kinds of people, other kinds of people may face challenges, but I'm lucky in this situation.

00:48:37.19
Don
So another question, you know, I worked in North Africa doing church planting many years ago, and I found that when Muslims came to know Jesus, they were initially very enthusiastic and excited and they read the Bible, but often they would they would have conflicts with each other. And sometimes the house churches would fall apart because they didn't trust what that person said or they thought they were shaming them. And they were constantly having conflicts between them. How do you find, how do you deal with conflicts between believers? How do you help them get reconciled? Is this a problem in your situation or is it is it no problem at all?

00:49:30.57
Zafrin
a Actually, there's obviously a problem. Conflict is always obviously a problem, but I'm blessed. All the time I'm saying that I'm blessed because I have started my missionary life in my country with the organization. I cannot repeat their name, but they were a blessing to me because they have some actually motto, they have some plan like that. So they teach me to manage the conflict. They give me the teaching for conflict management. And as per their goal, it feels fine to me. But at first, if you face a conflict with other people, then make them face-to-face and confess. Ask them face-to-face, not with the people, not their behind.

00:50:22.21
Don
Not behind their back.

00:50:22.18
Zafrin
Yeah

00:50:24.36
Zafrin
Yeah, not that bad, ask them and when they describe their situation, they at first ask them a question. What will Jesus do if he was in this situation?

00:50:37.86
Zafrin
Because we are peace-like behaviors.

00:50:38.30
Don
Okay.

00:50:41.45
Zafrin
So every I got every situation, these kinds of conflict management, I come to learn from service to the unreached, every people said, oh, if Jesus was there, he will forgive.

00:50:55.17
Zafrin
Then we say, that what should you have to do? Then we said, okay, we need to forgive. Like such kinds of things. And after that, we will not actually finish this matter in this place, in this, instantly.

00:51:08.13
Zafrin
We said, okay, pray. And then we do counseling and inner healing for every single person separately. Because he or she has a wound in her mind. So we have to actually cure the wound first through inner healing and counseling.

00:51:27.71
Zafrin
And after that, again, we met together with these people who has conflicted. God bless in this situation Holy Spirit works in this situation and I come to know all these things from my previous organization, Service to the Unreached. I'm telling previous because I'm giving leading this organization and actually for my personal side, I give resignation self-resignation. They are still praying for me so it was a blessing for me Serviced to the Unreached, a blessing for me.

00:52:04.87
Don
So you have been well trained on how to deal with conflict. And in your discipling of these house churches, you're finding it's very effective and they're learning how to become loving toward each other.

00:52:17.73
Zafrin
Yes. Yes.

00:52:20.58
Zafrin
Yes. send I'm actually grateful to God for Service to the Unreached because they did their best, did their best discipling me, for making me a fruitful disciple.

00:52:32.87
Don
Yeah.

00:52:34.21
Zafrin
So I'm spreading their teaching. I'm spreading their system and all these activities they did to me. So I am trying to actually use this in my ministry field.

00:52:51.33
Don
So of let me ask you, maybe a harder question and you can feel free to defer. But is there some experience you've you know, since you've been a believer that was very, very hard where it challenged your faith? Can you talk about that and what how you came out the other side? Have you had many times like that?

00:53:19.05
Zafrin
Yeah. There were lots of times, lots of times, but I especially indicate ah one story, one early little story from my life.

00:53:33.29
Zafrin
That I was... in that time I was a very new believer. I was very new believer and I didn't get a job. There's lack of food. I even... I didn't have food in my house for next days. And I don't have money. And I am crying. I'm crying to Lord. What is going? It's gone evening. I didn't get any response. In that time I said to Lord. It seems to me. You are gone blind. You, You cannot see my situation. Is it right? Then I cried a lot.

So. Instantly God sent a person, a pastor of my nearby church. He suddenly visited my house and he has a bag, in his hand, with grocery. And he just came to my house and gave it to my wife and said that God has blessed you with this grocery. I don't know. God told me to take all these things to your house.

00:54:51.01
Zafrin
After that day, actually I said, Lord, sorry. I will never, never ask you a question or blaming you because you have a plan for me. Several times after that, I got such kinds of situations. But all-time, all time, one verse. Yes, it's actually Isaiah 41:10.

00:55:21.38
Don
And what is that verse saying?

00:55:21.35
Zafrin
41:10. I'm your God. Don't be afraid. I'm your God. And Nothing will can forsake you. And I will empower you like that.

00:55:39.34
Don
So one last question.

00:55:45.13
Don
A number of people who listen to this podcast or watch it are younger. They're just sort of starting off in their life as Christians or trying to figure out ministry.

00:55:55.88
Don
As you look back on your life, is there some things that you wish you had known or understood when you were first being a believer that you understand now? Something to, yeah. What would you say to your younger self about being a Christian or being a faithful follower?

00:56:15.49
Zafrin
Actually, I am saying from the scripture because God spoke to me in this scripture and I shared with all the young people of the scripture.

00:56:30.60
Zafrin
God is asking your young time. God is asking your golden time. So all the years you are hearing my testimony, please give your best times of life, and your time to God. God wants to use all of you for his kingdom. It's the time because Jesus is coming soon. The clock is clicking. So time is very short.

00:57:07.72
Don
Now is the time.

00:57:07.52
Zafrin
Use your energy for God's kingdom. Amen.

00:57:15.05
Don
Amen. So if some of people watching this or listening, excuse me, would like to hear from you and pray for your ministry, is there a way they can get in contact with you? Or should I put something on the on the website or on our

00:57:35.65
Zafrin
Yeah, actually we have started our ministry. It's very new from this month.

00:57:44.80
Zafrin
We are actually fixing. We have a Facebook page. Maranatha. They are N-A-R-A-N-A-T-H-A.

00:57:56.58
Zafrin
Gospel Church, Maranatha Gospel Church. We have a Facebook page. And also ah we have our email address that I can mention, maranathagbospeelchars.bd at the rate zemail.com.

00:58:13.77
Zafrin
And also we have the WhatsApp. We have the WhatsApp number, plus 880-16-11-96-44-34.

It's our WhatsApp number. You can connect through us. and You can you email us.

00:58:33.19
Zafrin
Then we may send our on newsletter to you. Please pray for us. We are trying to actually develop our website. but We are trying to connect all people through Zoom, but God didn't provide anything till now.

00:58:48.39
Zafrin
Please pray that we may raise our fund but to work independently in a Muslim country. And all the people, all the people who are not able, ah they if you have a heart, if you have a heart to evangelism, to reach the unreached people, but if you don't need to ah come in other countries by...

00:59:13.99
Zafrin
Plane ticket with huge money. If you can provide this money to our ministry, we can share all the things transparently to you. We will spreading gospel in front of you. This is actually a teamwork.

00:59:29.96
Zafrin
We need more prayer partner. We need more financial partner. Especially we need prayer partner. Please pray for us. God is the provider. He will provide. But we need prayer more here.

00:59:40.74
Zafrin
So please pray us. Thanks a lot.

00:59:44.26
Don
So after the call, you can write the information and I'll include it in the show notes so people can go to your Facebook page and so on. They don't have to remember it.

00:59:55.11
Don
But thank you, brother. Thank you for this conversation. Pray blessing on you as you continue this new stage of your ministry. It was a privilege to meet you several months ago in South Asia, Southeast Asia.

01:00:11.88
Don
May God bless you. Thank you for your time with us.

01:00:15.81
Zafrin
Thanks a lot, Don. And thank you. for giving me the nice opportunity to share my testimony, my mission journey with all of you.

01:00:27.43
Zafrin
Thank you. thank Thanks for your loving people who are the viewers of this video. Thanks to all. Please pray for me and pray for our ministry, pray for our country.

01:00:39.85
Zafrin
But We cannot disclose our country name for some security reason, so but God knows my country's name.

01:00:48.01
Don
God knows, and most of us can figure it out.

01:00:51.33
Don
God bless you. Thank you. We'll finish now. Thank you.

01:00:57.01
Don
Well that was quite the conversation with brother Zafrin from South Asia.

Thank you for tuning into another episode of Reflexio. I invite you to let your friends know about it and to interact on social media. The more people interact with it, the more people can hear these stories... These precious brothers and sisters around the world who are serving our father in very different situations. Blessings and, till the next time, goodbye.

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