From Egypt to Spain: Mona Alber’s Missionary Journey

00:00:01.45
Don
Welcome to another episode of the Reflexio Podcast I've just had a... Great conversation with Mona Alber. She's an Egyptian who came along with her husband more than 30 years ago, sent by their church in Egypt to work with ah Arabic speaking immigrants in Spain, in Europe. And we talk about... the calling that they had, the way God sent them, the very good jobs they left in Egypt to go to Europe.

00:00:31.70
Don
Mona has just recently written sort of a memoir of her life. Drawing on our journals, it's called Come Walk With Me, A Journey of Joy on God's Uncharted Road.

00:00:42.72
Don
We reflect on a number of the stories that she tells in her book and we explore what it's like for majority world missionaries to serve in Europe and meet the needs of immigrants there they had a lot of trials but they also saw great fruit they've seen people come to faith they've seen uh they have a functioning Arabic speaking church there with Arab believers from all over the Arab world actually with the crisis in Syria and other places there's a lot of refugees that arrived in in their city. and in in Spain.

00:01:19.49
Don
So come join with me in this conversation with mona it's a very inspiring and very challenging and it really helps us wrestle with what missions looks like today where it's no longer from the west to the rest as they say but from the world to the world and here's an example of God sending Egyptians to serve in Europe to love and serve Jesus faithfully there.

00:01:45.64
Don
Welcome, Mona. to the Reflexio podcast. It's a delight to have you with us.

00:01:50.08
Mona
Thank you, Don. It's really a blessing to be here. together in this podcast

00:01:55.23
Don
So. Just to start off with, people don't really know you. I'll have a little bit in the Show Notes explaining who you are. But you sort of introduce yourself, what you and your family are doing and your ministry there in Spain.

00:02:06.56
Mona
Okay, so my name is Mona and my husband and I, Hany, we have come to Spain almost 32 years ago to start the ministry with Arabic-speaking immigrants, North African immigrants. So here we are. And the ministry has works through two community centers and an Arabic-speaking church. and a media production.

00:02:31.64
Don
And you have

00:02:32.81
Mona
I have.

00:02:32.72
Don
couple of sons.

00:02:33.96
Mona
I have two grown-ups. Sons, and three grandchildren.

00:02:38.47
Don
Wow. That's more grandchildren than I have.

00:02:42.10
Mona
So it is the joy of our lives.

00:02:44.44
Don
As we say, Mabrouk. Congratulations.

00:02:46.22
Mona
Shukran, Shukran (...Arabic expression)

00:02:48.28
Don
I speak Moroccan Arabic (spoken in Arabic)

00:02:50.47
Mona
Amen. Montez, excellent, great (spoken in Arabic).

00:02:54.68
Don
Yeah. Most people listening don't speak Arabic, so we better stay in English.

00:03:00.58
Don
so When you... When you started off. You are. But... I think the second people sent out to your church in Egypt.

00:03:10.18
Mona
Yes.

00:03:10.18
Don
to go somewhere else to be missionaries.

00:03:11.84
Mona
Yeah.

00:03:12.59
Don
um Can you talk? about that those early days how God called you. When I read your book, it was initially you were very young like for me, I was very young, um then how God actually... enables you to have your church send you. Let's just hear that story

00:03:30.03
Mona
Yeah, well it started really in our First year of marriage, we went to a three months. discipleship program. and outside Egypt and in that time God really called us both individually. at really uh serve him and So... just bring with our hopes with to spend our lives bringing his love and give good news to the people who are least exposed to the customer. So we didn't know how and where. We were very young. more children just first year of marriage.

00:04:06.03
Mona
but then on the practical part of our this school or this discipleship program everybody goes somewhere and do some practical work. service So we saw Both of us went to Morocco.

00:04:18.80
Mona
and in that time was very clearly to us that we have a great love God has put a great love. for Morocco and Moroccan people and we felt yes, that's where...

00:04:30.68
Mona
we want to be. serving. and in our interpretation or understanding is that we go live there and just serve that. However, this proved not easy or not possible to happen so We went back.

00:04:46.16
Mona
to Egypt and finish our program and we kind of still have this desire in our heart to serve. you're welcome people and we didn't know how but the door was closed.

00:04:58.24
Mona
very obviously closed. So we waited. patient clean. And we ask the Lord, you know. What's this that you've given us this love for a reason? um but then a few years later uh the door just open to another tutorial another scenario but it was totally God.

00:05:15.50
Mona
that we were called. to our input. are invited to go serve the Moroccan immigrants or North African immigrants, but in Spain, not in Morocco. and somehow it worked.

00:05:26.11
Mona
Our church was just starting very early. um the mission and department and They said, yes, we will back you, we want you to go. what God is calling you.

00:05:38.38
Mona
So here we go.

00:05:40.52
Don
So. You mentioned in your book... Just that. You were in a very good job as an engineer, right?

00:05:49.78
Mona
Yes, I was, yes.

00:05:50.45
Don
And your family wasn't excited about you quitting that job to go off and live by faith, right?

00:05:55.31
Mona
Yes. No, they weren't happy. It was... It was very difficult for them, first of course because they wanted us to be with them. I mean, it's not easy for them to see like young couples just go.

00:06:04.12
Don
Of course That's normal.

00:06:07.92
Mona
But also they had some very legitimate questions. Like what is going to why would you leave I mean you need to know that 32 years ago. and my position as an engineer in an oil company, it's a company that' it's a sector of the Egyptian society that's actually making profit and it's good.

00:06:27.39
Mona
A prospect of future and then I was just really starting that and It wasn't that many young engineers, especially women that has this opportunity so it was difficult for them but it was very clear for us that God is cold, isn't it? That's where we should go. so Yep.

00:06:47.44
Don
Wow. Yeah, leaving family, I don't think my... in-laws ever forgave me for taking their daughter off to the other side of the world.

00:06:55.86
Mona
Yeah.

00:06:56.26
Don
Yes.

00:06:57.48
Mona
I know. Yeah.

00:06:58.63
Don
It's tough. so What was it like when you first arrived and We're finding your way?

00:07:06.21
Mona
It was.

00:07:06.14
Don
Trying to... Realize you thought you. You could do it all in Arabic and you realize you need to learn Spanish.

00:07:11.82
Mona
I know and also not only we of course we thought yeah we're coming to serve in Arabic so it's going to be easy and straightforward but also life! We felt like we were going to Europe. and we both, Hany and I, we both have studied English and so it felt like definitely we are at least get by for some time by English like you know to do life to rent an apartment, to open a bank account, do anything.

00:07:38.28
Mona
we will do that at least in English till we learn Spanish. But it on that time especially like 32 years ago in Spain. Hardly anybody spoke English and we learned the hard way that we have to... to learn first Spanish just to... We are a young family with a little children. We have to learn Spanish just to be able to get by.

00:08:02.71
Mona
And so... so it was It was a big surprise. It was a culture shock really that you're going to Europe but yet you are not able to speak in English and also it has a lot of humbling experiences because People think if you don't speak the language that you have known. clue you're you don't you're coming and then of course It's hard because we understand a lot of these things. we were back home we were both professionals we had but

00:08:33.46
Mona
you know you don't speak the Spanish to you see me you look like you're not knowing what you're doing And it took us a lot, but it was a very, I think it was a very important. preparation and it's very important to understand.

00:08:47.74
Mona
the people we are going to serve because that's exactly what they go through.

00:08:52.12
Don
Yeah. I was. in Morocco when you were in Spain there and We did a couple of holidays in Spain. We found it so hard because... They didn't speak English.

00:09:02.50
Mona
yeah

00:09:03.01
Don
We had to…

00:09:03.17
Mona
yeah

00:09:03.46
Don
They didn't know Arabic. They didn't know French. it's like What? We can't even communicate anymore.

00:09:07.40
Mona
yeah

00:09:09.06
Don
So interesting.

00:09:09.20
Mona
Thankfully, it's not a... this way now, it's a lot more open, lots of young people are learning English.

00:09:12.58
Don
Okay.

00:09:16.56
Mona
It's a lot easier now than it was.

00:09:16.46
Don
Okay.

00:09:18.77
Mona
30 seconds.

00:09:18.91
Don
Three years. Yeah. So. Coming in as. Egyptians as Arabs. trying to minister to Arabs.

00:09:28.52
Mona
Yes.

00:09:28.50
Don
uh my experience of Spain is there's a pretty strong prejudice against Arabs? did How much was that part of your...

00:09:35.02
Mona
Yeah.

00:09:38.14
Mona
It was.

00:09:38.16
Don
encounter.

00:09:39.32
Mona
It was quite a bit. especially in the beginning. because of course there are There are some bad experiences. this Thanks. happens and of course these are usually get generalized So for example for us just to rent an apartment.

00:09:56.78
Mona
it was very difficult just because we are our we are Arabs. It was. The owners of the apartment, they didn't want to rent us. They asked us to... pay six months in advance.

00:10:07.50
Mona
something that never asked to anybody else. And so it was it was not easy in the beginning, but we understand where it's coming from. and it's it kind of of Midas. wanted to kind of relief.

00:10:20.92
Mona
make it a bit better. Bye. showing you know a good attitude and showing and Like. somehow the opposite spirit is just being humble and accepting that they don't understand, they don't know.

00:10:36.90
Mona
um so this is this was not easy but again i would say it's we would have never understood the people we serve.

00:10:45.65
Don
Yeah.

00:10:46.14
Mona
unless we went through these things.

00:10:48.27
Don
Because then you...

00:10:48.52
Mona
So it has...

00:10:49.30
Don
You were like them.

00:10:49.66
Mona
Yes.

00:10:50.62
Don
facing prejudice and facing...

00:10:50.86
Mona
Exactly. yeah I am an Arab immigrant just like them and I'm not

00:10:52.88
Don
Yeah.

00:10:54.98
Mona
different and the same things when some women now come to the community center and share with me some of these stories. I can tell them, yes, I've been through that. I know I understand.

00:11:06.52
Mona
so

00:11:08.13
Don
look Looking back. in those say first five years was there anything that stands out as like some of the hardest things you faced? like We'll get to the finances later.

00:11:17.13
Mona
yes

00:11:18.15
Don
but

00:11:18.96
Mona
Yeah. I think... Again, there was a sense of loneliness. because we were Yep. in the very first people who are actually going from as a developing country.

00:11:33.55
Mona
as missionaries to a Western country. and uh the whole field of Arabic speaking immigrants in Europe was so new. and no one really understood. There was no resources to kind of try to find what to do.

00:11:49.06
Mona
People did not understand this field. say Why are you coming to Spain to work with me? And. So there was a ah lot of loneliness and maybe misunderstood. like You come all the way to Spain. to serve the immigrants. There are so many Arabs in the country, which is true.

00:12:07.42
Mona
but there is a growing immigrant community Arabic speaking and no, there was no work whatsoever towards them at all. So therefore there wasn't understanding. what are the working strategy we had to kind of try different things to find how god was So this was long years.

00:12:27.52
Don
Yeah.

00:12:27.75
Mona
um So of course. Uh. I mean we were really very well welcomed. by the evangelical church and other missionary organization.

00:12:38.50
Mona
But they didn't understand that's why. like just like us we don't know our that Of course. The church in Egypt is very well prepared. For the kids they have a big a very alive church.

00:12:52.01
Mona
But people don't know that.

00:12:52.00
Don
Mm-hmm

00:12:53.70
Mona
I mean, and so we were not.

00:12:53.100
Don
Right.

00:12:57.51
Mona
Not always people... knew that we have been trained. we have coming already with goods. Christian. training. so these things took time but it's not out of any intention but not knowing.

00:13:11.54
Mona
It's not now this way at all. I mean. That was more in the beginning.

00:13:16.77
Don
And did you... Did God give you friends with other? Expats that were there trying to minister.

00:13:23.50
Mona
Yes.

00:13:24.15
Don
You had one couple in particular you worked closely with.

00:13:24.38
Mona
Yeah.

00:13:27.00
Mona
Yes, we The Lord just provided, we just was... looking for any Christian like fellowship. So we went to the Spanish church close to our home. where we first one and of course we didn't understand Spanish at the moment but the Lord just provided a beautiful uh Puerto Rican family.

00:13:46.62
Mona
So she... that they both Fuck. fluent Spanish. End. and English of course so she just took us in

00:13:53.82
Don
Okay.

00:13:55.96
Mona
She has... just started to translate that the sermons for us the church for us and also she lived close by she would come every day just to make sure that we are doing well the children became friends to our children she actually offered to teach us Spanish so It was...

00:14:13.54
Mona
That was really God's... provision and faithfulness on that time. And we're still very good friends till now, of course.

00:14:18.16
Don
That's beautiful.

00:14:20.91
Don
Yeah. And they're still there.

00:14:22.70
Mona
Yes. Yeah.

00:14:23.86
Don
Wow. They've been there more than 30 years too.

00:14:26.70
Mona
Yes. They are there.

00:14:28.13
Don
Yeah.

00:14:28.94
Mona
flourishing and everything, yeah.

00:14:30.55
Don
So... I understand that one of your primary, you yourself, you're as a couple, you're working on church planting and other things. but you run ah a ministry or several ministry centers to women.

00:14:43.24
Don
Can you talk about...

00:14:43.63
Mona
Not. not only women, to families in general.

00:14:45.41
Don
Yeah. Right.

00:14:47.04
Mona
So...

00:14:47.34
Don
So just talk about that and how that developed and describe it a bit.

00:14:50.63
Mona
Yeah. it really started by uh like a very fun story, if I can share this story?

00:14:57.79
Don
Please. Stories are best.

00:15:00.74
Mona
so we did not we just trying as I said testing what works, what not works, we just try to do some kind of evangelistic... ah like events and no one came like we worked very hard on that event I remember very early on and we invited some friends from back in Egypt to help us. so I think it was like three of them, so five of us worked very hard.

00:15:27.32
Mona
printed invitation invited i think maybe 200 people or something. and The day came And no one came, only one person, and came one hour later.

00:15:39.91
Mona
So we were really devastated. What did we do wrong? And of course, we kind of started to think, what did we do wrong? what was We tried what we know. We are in a free country.

00:15:51.27
Mona
So, on that time, um it happened that my younger son was going to a preschool close to our home. So I would go pick him up. I get to know some of the Arabic speaking Moroccan women. And they so they started to come for tea.

00:16:06.18
Mona
and we sit together at home. and my home and then One time, somebody called me and i i talked in English so oh mona Do you speak English? Can you teach? our children because they take English in school but they don't said I said of course let them come I'll teach them simple English and then they start to bring their children and then later on Hany had were They saw Hany working on a desktop.

00:16:32.15
Mona
At that time as well, not everybody had a desktop computer.

00:16:35.82
Mona
So they said, oh, your husband knows a little bit of computer. Can they can he teach our teenage boys? I said, sure. So... in few weeks. we've seen a constant flux of friends that come naturally very natural we help we're serving them what we have like using the talents that god you serving them and then they come and they feel safe and they feel loved.

00:17:01.62
Mona
And we did the math. you know. Five people, 200 invitations. Only one came. Opening your home and serving a really felt need. And then you have a natural way to love the people and to show them the love of God. And from now from that... incident from that event the Lord just showed us. that maybe we need to kind of consider.

00:17:25.12
Mona
Of course our home is cut start to be very busy and so many people and couldn't difficult. And the Lord just provided a small place and then this place. people started to volunteer, they want to come and serve the community, so it grew to another community center and that's how it started.

00:17:43.44
Don
So tell me. Tell more about the ministry. to the women and the families. And. and

00:17:48.46
Don
What kind of impact?

00:17:50.19
Mona
Yes, of course, we serve the families, so we serve that we we have... you know, serve the women. that teaching language abilities and we serve the children we do a lot of educational and also like value and and things like that in our center i will speak more about the women because this is where I'm more involved.

00:18:11.02
Mona
I found out from my friends that I i that I made with the friendships I had made. that women When they immigrate, It's so different from men.

00:18:22.74
Mona
Men, when they come to Europe, they are actually focused on just finding good work providing for the family a better future. This is their focus. but women They leave behind.

00:18:34.70
Mona
their sisters, their mothers, their community. and when they come the first thing we need to find is another community. that they feel belong. belonging to.

00:18:45.28
Mona
So this is like the deep need to connect. is really something that is common in all immigrants. women. They need to find not a replacement but a place they see they feel safe.

00:18:59.28
Mona
in and instead of the safety they left home.

00:19:03.13
Mona
So... That's how I feel like. when we get together as women. They feel this. this is the especially in our community center this is where we feel loved. and safe and accepted as we are,

00:19:18.48
Mona
um they are They are all... How can I say? very friendly, very loving, needing friendship. and once you offer love and really open a place for them to they come and they be just wanted it to be there they don't want to leave actually after the activity they want to be there So we we just I love the working with women and they are so thankful and grateful and they want

00:19:47.80
Mona
to build this relationship.

00:19:49.58
Don
Dude. Does the connection with the women and their children lead to... Any having connection with the husbands and the fathers, or is it a sort of difficult transition?

00:19:59.06
Mona
it over the years as we build trust. and the family trusted our community center, they feel like. This is a good place that they are really serving our needs.

00:20:12.64
Mona
And so they started to want more than just kind of educational activities so we started to do for example seminars about parenting in the in the in in the European society. the parenting.

00:20:28.78
Mona
we did some support groups for women and so the husband started to come as well to this kind of special. things to help them.

00:20:36.29
Mona
so it's more usually women are more available. Time more time. so it's I think it is common in many areas of ministries.

00:20:47.10
Mona
But the husband started to also respond to that need and at least they are very happy to what's happening to their families.

00:20:57.70
Don
Um hum. Yeah. This is not in our... planning here but just personally in many diaspora ministries people are working with immigrants who fled war and disruption.

00:21:12.58
Mona
Yes.

00:21:12.82
Don
Yeah. Morocco generally they're fleeing poverty they're looking for a better life. Do you deal less with like... traumatic stress stuff. with these women or is that also a big factor just the stress of living in another culture

00:21:27.02
Mona
Yes, they exactly the stress of living another culture the stress of sense of loss. I've. Right.

00:21:33.04
Don
Yeah.

00:21:33.60
Mona
all of them they feel like there is a sense of loss because even if you come in searching for a better future but yes do it And so this is part of that.

00:21:44.67
Mona
But also... um In the recent years, as you said, that are some people have... who comes from Morocco. but from other countries that have. during the gulf during the Arab Spring and all the things we started. see Iraqi, we searched and see Syrian.

00:22:01.15
Mona
And I would say. I would like to... so to maybe share a story that I have within the book. a story that is very much explains the need for having a community.

00:22:13.89
Mona
and There was this girl. um And I refer to her Halima, it's not her real name, but just for... safety. So Halima was a refugee from Syria. And as she came to our center, she's very... conservative very quiet. And very hard to open because obviously that the trauma they went through in in that, in that war and going through. through the refugee camps and everything. so but little by little she started to open up she started to feel like you know

00:22:50.60
Mona
And we have... a kind of activity we do in our center called art therapy when no one of us is like a professional art therapist but we call it that so when people are encouraged to do some kind of expression of what they feel...

00:23:05.70
Don
Yes. It's very good.

00:23:07.40
Mona
and I can't forget no one of us forget what Halima did. She we the activity on that day just to draw a picture that shows timeline of your life, the phases of your life.

00:23:20.82
Mona
So the picture she produced was a series of candles. the first candle was just lit and very bright and very nice and she drew around it a lush garden.

00:23:33.43
Mona
and then the second candle was a bit dim It was. Notary. totally extinction, but it was them. and the surrounding was not as nice. And then the fourth candle was totally black.

00:23:46.19
Mona
Total extinction. Totally and all over again. And then... that fourth one was lit again. So when she shared with us, I said, okay, everybody shares what they do. She said the first candle is my childhood.

00:24:01.13
Mona
In my with my family. with having you know being safe. The second one, when the world started, I was still in my family. So it's a bit dimmer but I still have a family.

00:24:12.34
Mona
And then the third one when it's totally extinct is when I was forced to leave my family, to leave my surroundings not even able to take my pictures or anything with me.

00:24:25.10
Mona
and being in the refugee camps for long time that I felt I am a number of them. numbers. and then the fourth one when it's again became light again she said that's when i came to your community center and i felt often And I feel like in that time it just...

00:24:44.44
Mona
touched my heart that this is the love of God. The tree brings hope back. to people who lost all hope. So I think this story is really communicates. the whole thing of provide a safe haven for immigrant women. And just saying you know there is hope. that is home.

00:25:03.52
Don
It's a beautiful image. Yeah, those four candles.

00:25:05.19
Mona
Yes.

00:25:07.14
Don
One person I follow a lot is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. I don't know if you read her story, but she's a...

00:25:13.71
Mona
Yes.

00:25:14.58
Don
Yes, you know her.

00:25:14.82
Mona
Yes. Yes.

00:25:16.16
Don
In her book, Nomad, she talks about the Christians in Europe and in America who are helping all these immigrants and refugees.

00:25:26.00
Mona
Yes.

00:25:26.76
Don
She says, you're doing homework clubs you're doing helping them with learning to read and it's all very good but she says "Why don't you tell them about your God? Because your God is loving."

00:25:36.82
Mona
Exactly.

00:25:36.78
Don
Yeah. the God that they believe in is not a God that anyone wants to believe in because she was at that time an atheist.

00:25:42.43
Mona
Yes.

00:25:42.71
Don
In your community work, are you able to also share the love of Christ because you're explicitly Christian?

00:25:48.23
Mona
sure of course Yes, of course, they all know we're Christian and that's we that they know that. the reason actually we don't have any other agenda. It's really the reason is to show.

00:25:59.88
Mona
the love of god and to show that you know. God has future has, hope has. new life for everyone who really seeks them. Yeah, of course, we do that.

00:26:11.49
Don
And are you seeing women? And families come into faith then?

00:26:15.12
Mona
Yes. Yes. We have the adaptation of course that's the thank the slide. the end of the funnel if we can say this is where

00:26:22.47
Don
Yeah.

00:26:23.78
Mona
and um yeah and oh Many, many people from the centers come to the church. not regularly, but can be exposed. Listen, and we sing with the grace of God.

00:26:35.02
Mona
if people accepted. vote yeah

00:26:37.95
Don
So that's a good segue into the next question about the church. so

00:26:41.34
Mona
Yes.

00:26:42.32
Don
you were sent with a vision.

00:26:45.36
Mona
okay

00:26:45.21
Don
Thank you very much. going to. minister to immigrants, but you also wanted to see a churches established. So what has that been like?

00:26:50.39
Mona
Yes.

00:26:52.13
Don
it's I know it's. Like in Canada, where I worked for a long time. the um Getting an established immigrant church is hard because they're working so many hours.

00:27:03.56
Don
and they

00:27:03.93
Mona
Yes. Yes.

00:27:04.49
Don
They're. they have no time and then they have to move to another city to get another job and it's like How is it? How is it? been for you at this journey.

00:27:11.88
Mona
it is it absolutely you really described it very well that working at with the church that are the congregation of all immigrants.

00:27:22.73
Mona
it's not easy because you keep working the turnover is so high because as you say you can invest in their lives. dis side bill and then life circumstances will take these people. somewhere else because It's the nature of the immigrant.

00:27:40.02
Mona
and Cheers. But, however... however I think. the immigrant Cheers! is also unique in a sense that it is the main expression of the family.

00:27:53.38
Mona
of god for these people. um so Again, my experience with the Arabic church in in Spain. is so precious, is so different.

00:28:04.08
Mona
even from my Arabic speaking church back home.

00:28:07.82
Don
Back home, yeah.

00:28:08.48
Mona
It's different because here first of all it is really the family away from family that's what they feel like this is my family.

00:28:17.40
Don
This is our family, yeah.

00:28:18.86
Mona
it is and the other thing is that the differences in in even educational background or socioeconomic background back home in any country.

00:28:31.04
Mona
These are very obvious like people tend to get like professionals together or and working class well but in this church we have in our church this totally disappeared.

00:28:42.58
Mona
everybody's navigating the same challenges of being an immigrant. So I love that in our church we can see people.

00:28:49.62
Mona
maybe with doctors and dentists and people who work in construction and people who are and know what there's no this differences they don't really...

00:28:59.84
Don
Don't matter.

00:29:00.44
Mona
It doesn't matter. and honestly I feel like Again, not only that, but even me being as like a missionary or the working Honestly, this has become my church.

00:29:14.20
Mona
It's not the people I serve. It's where I feel home. That's where I feel I worship i love to worship with my sisters. me that doesn't know how to rewrite but we are all family and This is a very unique thing.

00:29:26.93
Mona
And I feel like God... in his amazing love and faithfulness. He wanted to provide a family for the ones, the ones who left. everything. And that he would become their father and this is their family.

00:29:45.12
Don
So... You may be aware of one of my... foci is discipling people coming out of Muslim contexts and so on.

00:29:54.22
Mona
Yes.

00:29:55.08
Don
In your church context. How do you disciple the women and the children and the men? I mean especially the men with working many jobs, long hours.

00:30:05.32
Mona
Yes.

00:30:07.02
Don
Can you describe what... the dynamics of how that all works out for you.

00:30:11.20
Mona
Yes. It is ah it is a ah continuous challenge, as you say. right then the how does that the conventional way of discipleship like bringing a group, studying together do this, is not working.

00:30:24.47
Mona
People are having different working hours. Most of them when work calls they leave everything they need to because they can especially the immigrants.

00:30:33.67
Mona
In countries like Spain and France it's not like is different from the immigrants for example in Canada on the States where people are more in a higher place. jobs more stable so they have more time kind of. But...

00:30:48.86
Mona
with the people we work with that's just Sometimes they work weekends so they can't come to church. So anyway it's a challenge. I think what we found very and the most effective way is really almost one-to-one. It's just making walking with the person according to their needs.

00:31:05.69
Mona
timetable to their even Okay. spiritual level because if you bring people not from a Christian background you have to start from very basic so

00:31:15.49
Don
Yeah.

00:31:15.95
Mona
So it depends on the person, on where the person at. is in his Facebook. spiritual journey. in this time With women, it's a little... Better?

00:31:26.66
Mona
because Somehow. women is are easier to get together. the fellowship and the need of fellowship.

00:31:32.63
Don
Right?

00:31:36.24
Mona
So... We are very blessed, we have a very strong women group. that they have been The Lord has just brought them together. years ago through praying.

00:31:48.38
Mona
and intercession and this prayer Group, bring it. women. I am very humbled to be part of it. to be honest because they have Know the Lord.

00:31:59.24
Mona
in recent years in their life so they don't have this a decorated prayer, they just Pray like children and let God honor their faith.

00:32:09.16
Don
yeah

00:32:11.73
Mona
And every time I come out of this prayer group, prayer meeting we have on the Friday. I am thankful. I say, God, this is really... the prayer warriors that you have established, your daughters that you have brought.

00:32:24.80
Mona
Yeah. And another... I would say another characteristics of the immigrant. I am speaking Cheers! is that part of of being a family is that also um just to give an example it's pain went through a very bad economic crisis in 2008.

00:32:45.76
Mona
and it was in Europe in general, but Spain was one of the ones that was were hit very bad.

00:32:51.96
Mona
And on that time, almost all of our congregation, they lost their jobs. Plus, the people they had, you know, many people couldn't afford having workers. Anyway.

00:33:03.76
Mona
So the congregation almost and somehow on that time God had established something that is very strong in our congregation. people start to share from what they have.

00:33:15.50
Mona
So women would bake homemade bread and bring it to a single man in the church. they would just if they receive any kind of help from the government.

00:33:25.72
Mona
in any way. they would bring it to church and we lived actually in the essence of the you know I call it the Macedonian. example of a church in 2nd Corinthians 8 is just from the very deep poverty

00:33:36.46
Don
Okay.

00:33:40.49
Mona
it was the generosity overflown. And it became like a DNA of our church. This is how it is. It doesn't matter how people gain or or not having. they share. You share and they give.

00:33:51.84
Mona
So. I feel like gardens wanted to establish a model. of a true family through that. immigrants.

00:34:00.26
Don
So... That's ah such a beautiful, really beautiful to hear. It's great. um but at least to my next question is. In your book,

00:34:11.66
Don
You have quite a lengthy chapter, which you draw in your journal through the years and talk about. the major financial challenges that you face as a couple. support. coming up and down and having to trust god like For the moment. All the time.

00:34:29.14
Don
But you also talk about how... being pushed. the trust so deeply. took your faith deeper Can you just tell us a little bit about that journey? um Yeah, it's a beautiful.

00:34:42.47
Don
it's challenging for those of us who have enough all the time. It's sometimes hard to relate. too.

00:34:49.18
Don
Not knowing where the next... when it's coming through.

00:34:52.44
Mona
You know, I really... I really hesitated to include this chapter as I say in the beginning because I didn't want to it was a very vulnerable thing and it was also really hidden in my journals. I have never shared with any anyone, except Hany. And maybe...
some of the leaders of our church but it was really stories from... But again, the Lord just prompt me and to share because these difficult stories of the difficult time had Really shown me how God intimately walks with us in seasons of difficult times.

00:35:32.72
Mona
and how he really amped brings me to know Him. in a very deep way I wouldn't have known if I'm not. going through this And the big...

00:35:43.72
Mona
Part of it is the Word of God, the Scripture. I... I mean, every single story it was really i was really transformed because God showed me from his word.

00:35:56.47
Mona
he' his He's ideas, his... his how he closed his clothes he gave me explanation of any everything And it made me know that the Bible is very relevant. It is really, every story of the Bible is very relevant to what we're going through.

00:36:12.62
Mona
So I'm very thankful again. I read I'm saying in the first the part of the chapter I identify with the psalmist in Psalm 119 when you say, It was good for me.

00:36:23.28
Mona
that I was afflicted because I might be able to know your decrees. and to understand that the laws of your mouth is more precious.

00:36:33.80
Mona
than thousands of silver anyway and it is a very significant picture that the affliction made the person knows. That. we can live again this is not by bread alone. That's what God allowed the people in the wilderness to know.

00:36:52.76
Mona
the affliction so they can learn first-hand. He is enough. And I just say that the stories and in in the... I was writing in my journal. I never thought that's going to be shared with anyone.

00:37:04.84
Mona
But every story made me know him. better. Thanks. changed me. And at the end, I would say these are stories are not about the financial difficulties as much as about God's faithfulness.

00:37:18.80
Mona
in working with us in every single day. And I think it is important. in the sense because I see now young. Miss Norris? coming, joining the field and they might because you know the stories I so i shared on that chapter It's ordinary life.

00:37:36.22
Mona
It's the things that happen every day. You can pay a bill.

00:37:39.52
Mona
you can and they will face some things like that, might be. Maybe. and I just want to tell them at the end of three decades I'm... This has not left me bitter, it left me much more thankful for his faithfulness.

00:37:52.82
Mona
and it made me experience him in a way. that I would have never experienced it if not. through that.

00:38:00.45
Don
Okay. can you just tell one or two stories that you talk about in your book or other ones that just to Help us get a picture of what you're talking about.

00:38:10.84
Mona
Yes, I remember um a couple of stories. There was a time, I remember very well that Henny and I were going through a time that we really needed to see a provision.

00:38:23.82
Mona
It has to happen now. like there was some things that have you have to face and we prayed in the morning together on that day and we asked the Lord just Please.

00:38:34.32
Mona
provide and Both of us received a verse. and we shared it together and it happened to be the same verse exactly that you know in Matthew it says that all of you would ask your son would ask for ah a bread you give him a stone or ask for a fish you give him a snake so if you are either fathers and you give good things how much more your Heavenly Father.

00:38:56.38
Mona
And both of us, we received the same verse exactly, so we were 100 % sure that the provision will happen today. So it has to, it can't be like this. so we went we had a team coming from our church in Egypt for three weeks of outreach so we went to do our ministry things with them.

00:39:14.60
Mona
And it happened that our Spanish was not still very good and we parked the car in the wrong place. and we ended up after morning of beautiful outreach and our card was stowed.

00:39:28.24
Mona
And we had to. pay 190 euros fine. and the enemy was just coming to me very hard. Like you ask for a ah bread and you get him uh you know a stone or you are you asked for a provision you get a fine And I had to go back to God and say,

00:39:46.97
Mona
I need to know. Would I? and Like. what I would believe. my reality or your goodness. and the Lord just I kept reading the verses again aloud just to make me say this is god's reality god has not changed he is a good father he is a good father And the Lord just spoke to me very clearly. He said, Mona, the enemy was not after your money or after your wallet. It was after your faith.

00:40:13.48
Mona
If you let him rub your face now in me, Then he won. And that was a very clear for me. that that's what I wouldn't let that. God is good and at that time He just...

00:40:25.82
Mona
showed me how a good father he is even if i had to babies one And of course, the need was provided for and everything. But I came out. just choosing every time.

00:40:36.76
Mona
to declare his goodness, it doesn't matter. what is the reality at the moment because it's not that. Definite reality. It's just a small thing. No. compared to the truth.

00:40:48.20
Mona
So this one of the stories for example that came to my mind now.

00:40:51.72
Don
You were saying just a few minutes ago about how you're The DNA of your Arab church is... sharing and caring for each other.

00:40:59.64
Mona
Yes.

00:41:00.44
Don
You tell a story in your book about... How? your supply of support from home. stopped or almost dried up. and it turned out that the needs for this retreat you are running.

00:41:14.86
Mona
Yes.

00:41:15.40
Don
local people in your church.

00:41:17.45
Mona
and

00:41:17.74
Don
covered all the almost all the costs, and they had almost nothing.

00:41:19.01
Mona
Yeah.

00:41:20.43
Don
and how God provided.

00:41:21.22
Mona
yeah

00:41:23.52
Don
Yeah.

00:41:24.38
Mona
Amazing.

00:41:25.38
Don
Yeah.

00:41:25.48
Mona
I don't know if you've read that this. and that's particular retreat. We were short at the last day. to pay the venue. With almost as 1 ,000 euro something like this and we ask the church people to come together and pray.

00:41:41.82
Mona
because we don't have any money and We asked them to pray and that time that was very close to the time of the economic crisis when people lost their jobs. It wasn't. and somehow we prayed and we put a basket for people to just offer If they have anything and many people out after this strong presence of God in the retreat, they just started to put everything they have.

00:42:06.94
Mona
in the basket. and we ended up opening the basket with 1600 euros exactly what we have But then we we didn't know how it happened, but later on we discovered it. amazing stories.

00:42:18.98
Mona
One family, a couple that were sitting there, they were sitting in a different places at different ends of the room so they didn't see each i we the that The light was dim and we were praying.

00:42:29.78
Mona
So she felt that she had to go put everything she has. in And he felt the same without telling each other, without seeing each other. And then in the way home, They had helped, they offered us to help, with they had a small van.

00:42:46.16
Mona
that they can take the equipment back to church. so they took this and then in the in the way to the church and then they need to go home. he asked her say give me 10 euros so i can put some uh Guess in the card.

00:42:59.06
Mona
I said to him, I don't have anything yours. I put all my money. And he said, I put all my money. They both didn't have anything. and the fuel. indicator was

00:43:08.76
Don
Oh, no.

00:43:08.86
Mona
you know and they didn't know will it take us and the kids the kids were sleeping in the back see it and they were like god what is that anyway the story ended up that they were able to get to the equipment to the church and able to go home.

00:43:22.32
Mona
They talk their kids. home and thankfully they add up. The following day, the husband went to look for jobs because he had also didn't have job And the mother went to the school, took the children, and in her way, at the end of the day,

00:43:35.48
Mona
She asked, um the No, she was called, she was summoned by the director of the school. And the director said to her, here's this envelope. what has your name family name on it and she said Who are these people? She said, no, it's anonymous. We don't know who was given. It's for you.

00:43:52.30
Mona
And they opened it and it was there was a gift of 600 euros in that envelope. So they give between the two of them they put 30 euros in that.

00:44:02.91
Mona
And we don't know who was given that but it's... for them they say this is god's economy you give 30 euros overnight It's 20 % more deprived. and the thing is that this couple Peace.

00:44:15.18
Mona
So... generous the lord that blessed them amazingly they have more now and they keep giving they keep loving they keep generosity. And I think that's just kind of...

00:44:26.56
Mona
Yeah, because... That's the menu. of God's economy.

00:44:33.22
Don
So... In my role... as a missiologist for our agency. We're doing a lot of conversations around the changes in world missions with... I spent a lot of time in sub-Saharan Africa.

00:44:48.14
Don
I've gone to churches where they're commissioning a team of 30 to send them to East Germany. And they're you know they're doing these ministries and one of the things that... we're wrestling with in our context is um how do we support all these people? How do they get the funding?

00:45:08.95
Don
And then when they actually get there, how are they received? you know Are they received by the local non-Christians or how are they received by the church?

00:45:16.88
Don
You've been involved as Majority world missionaries to Europe for more than three decades. Any reflection on what's going on now and how things are shifting and what are you finding some really encouraging trends? Are you disturbed about some things that people just aren't seeing? Just share a little bit of your... wider experience, from your life. And what's going on even in your church back home?

00:45:45.96
Mona
I think what you're sharing is really a reality that we are seeing now. And it's a shift as you say it's a shift in the whole understanding of the mission

00:45:56.44
Mona
and way as it used to be. And I think it makes sense because we can see that even in the world now the boundaries are not there anymore. Immigrants are coming to Europe everywhere and from every nationality.

00:46:13.22
Mona
Recently in Spain, we have we are experiencing a flux of immigrants alike. like we have never seen before. Anyway, so it's so they are moving like lots of people from different backgrounds.

00:46:26.92
Mona
are coming to Europe. And I think it makes sense that God is sending people from the same culture to kind of... So. so it is encouraging it's very it's of course we have we have to recognize that people will have easier way to connect.

00:46:43.57
Mona
with the people from their own culture because of the language with the immigrant community. But in the same time, Okay. It's encouraging, but there are some concerns, as you said. and how are they going to Peace. the sustainability, are you going to be able to continue?

00:47:01.60
Mona
with all the challenges that we have in Europe. and are they just Is there enough training? Is there enough kind of of because it's not enough. We speak the language. It happened with us. We speak the language of the people. We know the culture.

00:47:17.66
Mona
but yet we had to go through a long process of learning new things. And I think it's very important for the new... generation of missionaries from difference.

00:47:30.88
Mona
From different from Africa for me They need to kind of come to the field. with uh a learning and teachable heart.

00:47:41.16
Mona
It's not enough you speak the language, it's not enough that you know the culture. There are so many things in the middle. that we are going to face and we have to come with that humble attitude. that I'm learning.

00:47:54.42
Mona
That's being in the mission field. you are not knowing everything. No one it's in the opposite. you will discover so many things that you don't know.

00:48:06.20
Mona
and ah you can think that because you know the culture because you know the language or you understand the background it means that It's easy. It's not going to be easy. It has to come with a lot of learning.

00:48:20.86
Mona
And. observing, learning even from the Europeans.

00:48:25.72
Mona
believers from the European. So... humbleness both way has to be there. um So I think that's part of it.

00:48:35.68
Don
So. God called the two of you to... to minister to Arab immigrants in Europe.

00:48:42.16
Mona
Yes.

00:48:42.24
Don
I have a colleague in London. and he's African, from Nigeria. And His church sent him to Europe, to reach Europeans, to reach Londoners.

00:48:57.76
Don
Right. And he's been there something like 30 years like you have and he really wrestles because almost all of the African churches in England are all Africans. There's hardly any... making any penetration into the Caucasian majority around them or the migrants from other cultures. You know, your calling is... to Arab immigrants, but you've, I mean, you also have others working in Europe trying to reach Europeans.

00:49:32.38
Mona
Sure.

00:49:32.47
Don
Do you see how this is going to work with people from majority world southern countries, reaching out to Europeans, not just... people from their own culture.

00:49:43.20
Mona
yes

00:49:43.61
Don
Is some of that happening? and

00:49:45.76
Mona
I think so, I mean of course in our case we are as you said that the focus is in Arabic-speaking. However, we found out that we really have to collaborate with the Spanish Church.

00:50:01.22
Mona
in everything. like they loved, they wanted us to help. them understanding the immigrants around them. and we ask them to help us as well understanding the weight Life. in Europe.

00:50:15.26
Mona
the challenges people will face in Europe. So I think there has to be kind of a desire to integrate desire to feel like part of the bigger family of God.

00:50:26.50
Mona
Even if you are focused on the one thing people group you cannot this is a this will be really a problem. ah because it's so easy to isolate. so easy to feel like and In our case, for example, we have we have ah the privilege of having a multicultural team with us. So in half of our team speak Arabic, other half... don't

00:50:49.44
Mona
But because of our community centers, we do have a second generation.

00:50:54.32
Mona
and we have educational activities and things and in the church the second generation are all Spanish speakers. You know.

00:51:01.16
Mona
like anywhere and so the people who are actually serving The second generation immigrants, not us. It's not me or Hany or who are speaking.

00:51:10.26
Don
Okay.

00:51:10.80
Mona
It's the other. European. people who God is calling them to serve. in our church you can see that there is the for example the adult community is all Arabic speaking from different

00:51:16.06
Don
mm-hmm

00:51:23.47
Mona
backgrounds but then the second generation the kids speak spanish their teachers their workers the youth workers. are not Arabic-speaking they are the ones who are from Europe.

00:51:36.59
Mona
And so this kind of...

00:51:38.46
Mona
of providing a place for other people from the European. community to be part of what you are doing is very significant.

00:51:50.32
Mona
I think it is important. in the part of training and preparing these missionaries. is to understand its big part to be integrated. It's a big part that is to form a part of what God is doing with the Europeans.

00:52:04.34
Mona
And. Cheers.

00:52:07.66
Don
Yeah, I think. when God raises up vibrant. immigrant churches that can sometimes help the European church to recover there. their vibrancy, their faith.

00:52:16.05
Mona
Yes. yeah

00:52:17.66
Don
Yeah. it's very true Um,

00:52:23.10
Don
Well let me just ask you a question we ask everyone. If you think back to your... 25 or 28 years. I don't know how old you were when you arrived in Spain. but um 30 years ago.

00:52:35.36
Don
What would you say to yourself? so what you've learned since. Maybe. help you get a better perspective on the what's coming and maybe just more generally you know your kids age sounds like your kids are doing really well um but as they look at life. going forward.

00:52:52.50
Don
um What would you encourage them with in terms of?

00:52:56.66
Mona
I think the thing I would most... tell myself, 25 years old self or even the second the younger generation is not to panic.

00:53:09.22
Mona
that you need to figure out everything. Because you won't. It's really it's not and it's really a learning experience all the time being in a mission field you are learner you are God is really about not only what he does through us but what He does in us. And so it's okay to not know everything. We are not heroes. And we are not called to be heroes.

00:53:40.78
Mona
Part of the thing that said, I write in in my book, is how much I'm touched by Apostle Paul in the Letters of Corinthians. Because he's very vulnerable, sharing about his struggle with the people he serves that they don't respond as he hoped they'd respond, or actually they criticize him.

00:53:59.94
Mona
And these are real things we are going to face. And we don't have to feel like we know what to do. When the time comes, God shows us, God changes us. God makes us more humble and changes us and gives us how to face these things.

00:54:15.32
Mona
So again, you can't have I even called them the book is a journey of joy in God's uncharted road. we cannot have a clear road map to everything we are going to face. It doesn't work that way.

00:54:30.40
Mona
so just to kind of be at peace be able willing to learn. to make mistakes to know that we are called not to be here but we are actually a very weak vessel.

00:54:43.16
Mona
And it's all about Him. It's all about walking with him close by. not really about achievements and this is a big thing that people especially with the young generation they are so focused on Achieving goals.

00:54:58.12
Mona
Which is good. I mean, it's good for food. to work hard and achieve goals. but It could be very frustrating. because sometimes the goals of God is a bit different from our goals or our expectation.

00:55:12.16
Mona
Expecting. uh from other people and us so just keep your eye on Jesus. I would say myself you know he will never fail. He's committed to teach you how to be a better worker for him. So.

00:55:29.16
Don
I think I skipped over this in the planning what we're going to talk about, but In your book, you have this chapter where you talk about dealing with pain.

00:55:41.38
Don
And.

00:55:41.55
Mona
Yeah.

00:55:42.20
Don
I have a... a close friend here in town who well he's recently retired and gone to live where his children live. But he had to retire early because of his migraine headaches. He took everything he could he could never and he kept having to stop, missed classes because he couldn't work. You've struggled with migraines.

00:56:05.26
Mona
And yes I do.

00:56:05.57
Don
a lot of your life and yet

00:56:07.20
Mona
All of my life.

00:56:08.16
Don
Yeah, can you... Tell about that journey and also your husband's struggle with back pain and

00:56:13.64
Mona
Yeah.

00:56:14.02
Don
That was hard to hear about.

00:56:16.76
Mona
It is, and I'm just looking back. It's been years and... How? Like. this impacted our life in many things. My husband had a back injury long ago when he was young and it kept happening. It kept worsening, and of course, at some time, we were very driven. like We want to see the ministry happening. And...

00:56:42.18
Mona
It was... very like Kind of. God used The pain kind of to slow us down and some time so that it was his way of having a slur.

00:56:55.76
Mona
but also with my migraines it was very challenging because, um, if anybody suffers from migraine, they know that if there are some things that are very debilitating when you have a migraine attack.

00:57:09.08
Mona
and we work with a culture that's very relational and people like to talk and I spend and when you have a migraine you want to be alone. So I had to kind of figure out God where is your grace that you can give me through the task so that when I go have my day.

00:57:26.12
Mona
When I should be right, listening to my body, and just slow down when they have a migraine or just trusting Him to give me the strength to work. It's a constant battle, I still have them, they still come.

00:57:38.84
Mona
But I learned to work within the limits. The same thing with my husband. He has a persistent back pain, and he comes through so many treatments. But he learned to work within the limits of that.

00:57:51.72
Mona
Knowing I think it is, it is just make you realize that is you It's not really depends on you. One of the highest times I felt The Lord is giving me anointing when I was in my really weakest point. When I had a migraine. So it's a constant reminder. that is by his grace and his strength is made, is made full in our weakness.

00:58:18.42
Mona
And yeah.

00:58:20.05
Don
Yeah. the passage in Second Corinthians two or three, I think it is, that Paul talks about, we have this treasure in earthen pots.

00:58:31.70
Mona
Yes. Exactly.

00:58:32.54
Don
and the fact that they're cracked and broken means that the light of Jesus shines out more.

00:58:38.16
Mona
Exactly.

00:58:38.41
Don
If we had our act together, we had no problems, then it would be us they were looking at instead of Jesus.

00:58:43.00
Mona
Exactly.

00:58:43.24
Don
so Yeah.

00:58:44.26
Mona
No, it is absolutely true. In our situation, it was very true.

00:58:46.47
Don
Yeah.

00:58:48.64
Don
Yeah. So. Yeah. As people... wind up this conversation. How can they be praying for you? um We're going to have in the show notes some information about your ministries. They can contact you if they want to. How can we pray both for you and your ministry, but more generally for the immigrant situation in Europe?

00:59:10.03
Don
And, well, we have it in here too.

00:59:10.41
Mona
Yeah. I think for... I would start first for the immigration the immigrants and then I'll end with our personal. I really want to us to pray to see leaders coming from the immigrants.

00:59:28.09
Mona
And people who are not necessarily missionaries sent from other countries but missionaries actually sent from they make their mark. like people who are Seeing the need and saying I'm here for a reason not just to make a good life.

00:59:42.86
Don
Yeah

00:59:43.18
Mona
but because I'm here that I can impact my community. So I pray for this all the time and I say the Lord just help me to see how can I equip them? How can make them see, that you know, there are talents that, you know, the parable of the talents. Use what you have. You are here. you speak the language, you live among them.

01:00:04.60
Mona
So maybe praying for even more missionaries from the people who act who know the Lord and become disciples and reach to others.

01:00:14.22
Mona
And for us as in this phase of our lives my husband and I, is I just recently the Lord spoke to me a lot from Jeremiah. I think 17.

01:00:25.86
Mona
It's the same picture of the tree that is in Psalm 1. They're rooted next to the water. But in Jeremiah it says that it will not cease to bring fruit.

01:00:37.88
Mona
It's not just brings for they do not cease to think through that will not cease Stop. and the Lord just told me not. Yeah, maybe we are approaching retiring age whatever But being fruitful is something that is expected from us even if Right. slow down or we cut down our schedule.

01:00:57.54
Mona
So my prayer is that those who are going to serve the Lord. to the end of their life. not to cease to bring fruit. link to stay connected to the living water and naturally. being fruits in a different stage of their lives in the way they are. do it.

01:01:15.91
Mona
but never cease to bring truth.

01:01:18.09
Don
house I'm facing that same kind of question. so it's a relevant word. Thank you. May we continue to see God use us and bring fruit in our lives. Thank you so much. This has been a wonderful conversation. I hope many of them will get your book and read it and hear the rest of the story. But may God bless you. I haven't been to Spain for many decades, so maybe I'll have to come visit.

01:01:40.80
Mona
Thank you.

01:01:43.70
Mona
You're welcome to come anytime, of course.

01:01:44.43
Don
it some search It would be great.

01:01:47.74
Mona
Okay.

01:01:48.40
Don
God bless you thank you so much.

01:01:49.76
Mona
God bless you.

01:01:50.40
Mona
Thank you, Don.

01:01:51.61
Don
Okay. Bye.

01:01:54.03
Don
I really enjoyed my conversation with Mona. She's such an inspiration. She's got so much wisdom from her life of service there in Spain.

01:02:04.46
Don
And the trials she's been through. the dealing with a migraine headache most of her life, the financial struggles. It's really shaped her into a woman who's... a deep woman of faith.

01:02:18.00
Don
It's very inspiring to talk with her. And I encourage you to let your friends know. As always it's good if you can give us a thumbs up. I actually spend time making a number of shorts that go out on Youtube and when you when you get those, can you just give them a thumbs up and say, hey, I like that. And can you take the time to just write a comment or even interact with some of the content of this episode. I'd love for more people to hear about it. And the more comments you do, that influences the metrics that enables more people to watch The Reflexio Podcast and hear these stories of humble, godly servants from around the world.

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